so this is this for yes


the future of G D case where we want to go we had a

i first

in april

well we sit down and natalie botched all the also believe it is that the

fee is introduced last all

but also talk about the future and how we see

things going

i know presenting my ideas for a i mean things are saying i've presented and

everybody else so far nobody can play i hope this will change in this tall

or develop


so for wider "'cause" that's consumption is what we mean

where we want to go

in the future and how

things will be able next year

ideas and G T K is going to

first talk about technical things like what features do we want to G T K


that about practical i called practical because it didn't find a better word yes what

kind of two teams G T K going to be

is there is a difference between huge and H T M L

and G T K and release other to get

that's all briefly about G T K three buttons G T K two


the question might lose every well is that gonna but T K for it when

it's gonna be that

and what's it gonna be about

so technical

is it all this is not a road map

this is what we think we want to do next so all the things that

presents here a still so abstract

that we don't know how they will look and code and we don't even know


a year from now you'll still one that this

but for now we want

the first one is his classes

if you wear it demanded store

this morning he introduced his ideas away he sees things or what so i probably

shouldn't say much more about it

i agree with that

go for

but that the general thing is we want to have the features that about that

and be able to use that not just

make application developers able to use them from inside G T K application we also

want to use them

to create a widgets

have a look like

one which is

this is

part of what emails that animal you know with P that we quiet

be it is the idea to you from the kind of way when you draw


G T K you just have a draw function that draws everything like modifies a

bunch of variables that draws this that modifies the variables again and also that by

the variables again of that

so you don't know

and you think about what you just roll at you if you want to go

to is the mouse over this stuff but i do the arrow that's that you

have to compute that us alvin S gets really complicated

so is that we want to have actors

ideally class or active


we can use it is that

you around and that do all this stuff automatically for

and that should make it easy to write complex which is with lots of things

that you could move rather than screen and still try easily of them out as


on a lot of what i

it also makes it easy for you guys just i really because we want to

make our actors conform to the C S stuff but we right

previews yes

so that you can lend

at borders to them that patty model

so for sizes for every single out


great if we had nobody writing and which seriously thinking about that we have

i have a proper experimented with it

i'm cat program

just use our input system is still essentially the egg synthesis the

so when you want to handle something with the mouse that is more complicated than

about press or

pressing to but a double take

like even the long press you have to

track time and at a time out somewhere and no wonder what happens and you

need to remove the time out that you would widget gets hidden or

the mouse moves and things like that a really complicated

and for common interactions that people do but with the mouse and even with touch

like imagine what you need to do you want to have a to think guess

white that you need to track

touchdown events for one finger in for the other thing and then you need to

check if they move of the same speed in the same direction and

the you if one of the thing is leaves this screen do you that make

that we do that of all the gesture or not at all these complicated stuff

i need to think about it makes it really complicated


to track all these complicated gestures that

i so simple on these other

devices you

wouldn't want to do that manually on every which is so we want to have

objects that you can just trying to say

do you please have a


and i will take just it is everything and you just connected to your button

and when somebody clicks on it you will get a this gesture was just done

signal and that's it

on top of that we want to have that with which is that one which

is handling at the next which it can because

you want to do scrolling on top of other widgets then that's probably needs to

happen so that's a bunch of complicated stuff

that we seriously thinking about that we have

i was gonna actually is ill i was still

alice's be working on that

i am working on the think that use this looking at it and excess the

looking at it i've talked to and about that we all have ideas of how

that might or might not well

but ideally it should be so simple to just say

this widget is listening to slide to the left or right tell me whether what

that you can use what stuff like swap to the lexus

split to the next day

there is are

technical long term goals

it's still a lot of work so

stuff but stuff especially happening moving into the right direction

also if anybody wants to comment what really i guess

talk about it with me on I C I

people experimenting with this crazy stuff give me new ideas gives other people you it

is it sometimes something turns out very simple

we just put strategies E K O


the practical part of the talk is

i gave i gave at all asking a bunch of questions about what G T

K's about two years ago


boston some


since then i've talked to many people about what they think so than what i

think is reasonable



and this to these are not necessarily the ounces i

so don't shouted neva be stupid person because i wanted that way i think there

is a beyond says that a car wreck on system questions that

and i want to put them out because i think you use there's a guide

ins of how we want to look at to develop and how we want

to make things happen like if somebody

things G T K should do this

i want to tell them no i don't think there is the right thing because

because of this practical decisions that we make

first one is

i listen back and support

how many back as do we support what kind of operating systems do we support

how well do we support

do we can have it every feature that we add is available on every operating

system and back and we use all

or do we

how do we do

so i think it's

we have one primary

thing back and we support

and then in this case please G okay back and apparently this is X eleven

and the future

that will most likely waylon

we have a bunch of have a beckons but the other back-ends have to make


with what we give like we ride in A P I that works already i

will work well all waited

and that is the primary get like G D K will be an abstraction that

right away

it should definitely be okay on everything else next that

okay window plots whatever somebody else comes up i still hope for it am aspect

and so we can easily pull shell

to be a way to post a very well

i lots of backends but in the if we also question how do we implement

this feature we'll look at weight and how the way to do it and that

and you like where for currently we look at that like

like to say it example what we implement the frames for three point eight

we implement of the frame for all X eleven

and i will did

lots of what figure out is it is it implement able and everything else

particular how did a whale and all but then he implemented in the way

that was good for X

and for the people i don't have a right or we just use it idol

souls that takes every sixty milliseconds i'm still

all for the ones where it's not implemented i think windows uses the idols

might have been fixed by now just

we make sure what some X eleven and family of it and works okay everywhere

else but those


this is the reason for that is that if we make sure it works really

well everywhere we would be so far behind on these


until we fix i think it G D K base by the supporting a new

feature that i problems would take weight

i'll come to that when i talk about platforms which is a kind of different

things like to but the general thing is

work them make sure stuff works it doesn't have to be perfect like if you

don't have any frame synchronisation you probably can with it

make sure it's possible to implement it

if the platform supports it the reasonable way

like we try to make a right the i smell

but i just next that you tried to make abstract them in a way that

they can be able and everywhere but if we have to choose

either X eleven or everything else we will choose X

the good news is we're currently in the process of switching from X eleven to

wait and so we have

currently having a very bright extraction that accommodates two very important back-ends

so it's easier than ever to write you one so if you want to experiment

is that like android back like K M S like that

as the best time

please don't write another direct

for better is the question of what size of devices do we

care about

do we want to run small lobe i'll devices do we want to run on

devices without a floating point unit to we want to run on

i really don't supercomputers what devices do we run and i think this question has

been onset last what i've already that know focus is on laptops

so we will with a single lap tops

but i think is that there is lots of devices that are very similar to

laptops like fall factor tablets that have a screen that looks like a laptop screen

the nap rare is simple a very similar C P U power memory

but if we have to decide why how we do we make file choose a

we will not make sure the file choose it fits into a three hundred twenty

by two forty three we will just

go with the do regular laptops

and we also make sure it looks good

size to something

like i was

input devices

how people going

to in that stuff

this is attach question that's always come out

at the other but that is still because laptops obviously i was it P

laptops are getting taxable so expect people to look at what more


also back from the technical stuff without the gestures is really complicated apparently to

make something complex like leaving this why

handle without adding lots of extra variables to your five widget privates

we're trying that in the scroll window explode with the is

you can see

this is an interesting one

you can either decide to be the bad form

to define the platform all to try to integrate with existing

i you can say G T K tries very hard to be able you look

at tries to look like K D E applications he tries to look like it

was X application a low cost lights look like windows application

windows and doors look like real application of you know let's the easy

i tried to look like an X F C application all next see in tries

to look like to make a recreational thing


i think we want to be a platform for us

and to integrate sec

i means

a real example with that is

let's say it interesting example is that is middle mouse paste

you know that you can select text and then use the middle mouse button to

paste it anywhere



on you know you could do that you know decided to disable it so somebody

wrote the passion to remove it from G T K

that didn't go well with lots of

you know uses i think

it's turned off by default of into currently and all the J fedora hasn't still

do we still have a turn all those a daily of the next release i

don't know

next really it's

so from next door release you cannot middle mouse place anymore you need to do

use control C control


you need to ask people that decided that was that's the goal excuse that i


and it's a different discussion to

to might fall so you

find the right people i'm not sure visit john allen

some of the design is


so this is well not me

it's a it's a good example of why i want to say i think we

need to be a platform for us to decide we don't want to do something

even though they're not all that do it because it's

that to support these things when nobody of the call develop is ever going to


and also what people write applications than not going to test

the case where this platform features different


they will sometimes even the pen almost

a depend on those platform feature being set one way or the other

like somebody might decide hey the middle mouse button on an entry doesn't do anything

i will at the feature to my entry that i saw on the middle mouse

suddenly that featured is weapon open to because it's about that all the case


to get back

of course if it's possible to integrate and it's not very hard and it's not

very confusing we want to do that

like sometimes we even go out of the way because we think it's really important

like the menu work

that ryan did where you men you can be in the title volume using go

shall the full menu can be a like nudity

or in katie you still have at the window

something as i think it's important but

if we are in that we will be a platform and the platform we yes

of course but you know platform because most of the people it develop

at G T K i know us

which means that if we have to argue with X it see develop is about

that time for the different

sure if we can integrate their ideas but where the whole

but of course and that goes back to the question you awesome

we want to work everywhere

there simple reasonable limits like probably not work

on a commodore sixty four


i play somebody has and also lowers box and wants to run the G T

K three application of that

it would be nice if we could do that i think we still do that

like we have we have support for X eleven call protocol features that

at the end of the X so we can run with features that have been

in the X server for ten years and then you get everything you

we we're trying to keep it that way it's also great for D by the


we want to run everywhere we want to run on all operating systems of all

platforms we definitely want to keep running at a you don't want you know replicate

press we also

a new machines that you have somewhere with at the end

well whatever

so that means you propose in new features that

for require is the greatest opengl extend have a i will probably complain

this one is an interesting want to like we develop is the use G T


what kind of application of a people

are we developing a smallish have slight

my favourite example is always you know clocks because that's just a bunch of box

well i developing huge applications like

we brought it stinks capable

and we also to this one

which you "'cause"

can almost guess it's you have the in the T as tall as we focus

on smaller

the new widgets that we add it make it really easy to write a small

that looks

the way that you know designs and that is really easy to write smaller

and i just because but

the people as well on all the to get like

i know guys that you know it's focusing on small house we want to make

it easy to have an actual listen to that's for where people right smaller fast

and we want to make it easy for that push that

onto the best

there also is the case that the big applications


right that road toolkit or at a lots of bells and whistles and widgets and

so like we're offices the best example it's build or i have fox to build

on top of G T K but they only opened a window in the draw

everything themselves

like they tried to call into the seeming layout maybe of G T K but

that'll using you could be a G T K widgets

and even applications likings K have lots of the road widgets

so if we want to go and at a docking which is okay


you guys would complain but it doesn't look like the docking behaviour the escape doesn't

can play that doesn't look like it's good talking behaviour the nobody user


the way this is worked out is that small developers a currently running this the

G T K development so we're focusing on small

yes that of course makes life harder for all those of real application feel like

the applications


i defining the difference is some is


so this

it's like it's a spectral like that is applications that a small and tiny that

obviously all like thoughts about one of the big the

so it anyways an example that when i wrote this talk presented somebody is that

you brought up i think to me epiphany is a smaller because epiphany is essentially

but prove around

at if you take what you would wept it is easy

what it had which

and if you take that out it's just few

like compare to the my amount of which is that you have and that regulate

you window

where all the settings

layout dialogues layout dialogues set

is that



i would i would give you i would give you the definition if the if

the highness hot of porting the application

yes porting all the dialogue boxes that it's a big

which was the big thing for the liberal disguises big thing for the numeric guys

like imagine


it's something we're looking more at the smaller side a lot

this might change next year because suddenly lots of develop a show out that want

to make really awesome P T V and i really great to look at the

suddenly we find languages what

but now

about this some more

there's always people making

often times making jobs but

sometimes being serious a why should i use G T K three

i have adjudicated application it's also

should i still use G P K to select what the G T K three

we have been very clear from the beginning that we want everybody of the G

we ninety to get we think G T K three's also

but in recent times

i've kind of started to die


G T K two is stable

this change

like every change that happens there even is just a simple but big as a

high chance of breaking some application somewhere

and it's essentially board

that there are people out that the like to stable changing or

there's people that and say well we're targeting route a

ralph i've recently learned as G T K two point ten

do you can two point and already has cairo

doesn't have points that windows


it's very

if you write an application that is targeting G T K two point ten

you're probably doing yourselves this service if you're porting it to G T K three

because suddenly you have another pull you to make

unless of course you want to take advantage of all the great features of G

T K three and want to be integrate really well into you know

but if you want to be integrate really well to you know you have to

keep a with you know anyway because you know it's still

changing rubber



sure if you want to do that and if you like that and you have

the manpower a prodigy okay three

so if you have more busy porting your favourite application to all the tools

at removing millions of lines of loading

who for

outdated file

well that might be better to keep using

also do you think a three and this is one of the things you can

three is very

and state people always come to me and say well you doing at i brace

you doing avi breaks

and i always say

we both

we are trying things and see if we can get away with it

like a clutter integration is not something that happens without it

i suppose it doesn't have without a cup i don't know how much of a

magician men yes but probably

i mean we we've managed quite a bit of things them actually quite happy with

how a little we wrote start with all the things that we introduced light

see is that's rendering change the way we do the

three releases and applications you

look okay


i also quite happy that all you know develop this that right more complex applications

keep up with us and when we introduce frame clocks

and they have

been done sink some ways they that their applications that suddenly that all

so that's right i

we like

that we can be but of course

if we're both and you know from the technical changes that we want to have

that we probably need to be bold like if we want to introduce gestures and

redo or input system that might be things happening to people that care about input

more than the usual person that this has about clicks

like you for example


but we can be both because it enables us to do that so

which brings us to be able

what are we going to do G T K for

why don't we

when i don't know


i don't think about you know there is a lot of text to do the

clapper stuff i you have no idea is active stop words and if so how

long take


we want those things ideally before we duty for because we want to get the

G T K two advantages be boring

table in particular we want to have those back

we'd like to have a to hear that is modern that works sometimes and has

all these great advantages

but that is also stable and that we can tell people with a huge

application if you all now this application will run i change without problems

five use you

i think this is one of the girls that we have used it you for

the other one is the

the other one is how long can we be bold until our application developers throw

rocks as us for breaking random stuff

there are of course everybody always throws rocks when i find the by that



it's about is that we need to take of course because they also want a


we definitely shouldn't regular application when we implement and it should work out of the

box and they should

like an application developer will need to change not thing actually just

what about


and if it doesn't extra rolls and we throw the rocks back and as long

as we still have a chance of winning about okay

we will draw

but and then i think we want to

G T K two

the stability that you take a have

i would like to do a new major release

rid of all the deprecated a the eyes

and i tried to be

a lot more careful we do an advertise to a forest we had done with


i ask you saying and the beginning with

and of long as you laugh

we will go



as a contributor to G T K even a small one about a couple of

projects going to the toolkit

i think that the domain interesting having widgets you can so i G T K

is they need to be

widely used we need to be able a pick-off to name all doesn't applications that

we use that particular widget three to be useful


what we try to do well but you know those widgets is also make sure

that they match the good on designs

so that means that the behave and the look and feel of the of the

new widgets should match

should match the designs and that makes it that much easier to write applications that

do the right thing

yes something i didn't talk about with it i actually like a lot this the

way that we currently develop the new widgets at the kind of we just we


like they


requires so behaviour from your application see which it so we kind of

match you in the right direction if you use the widgets that your application looks

kind of okay without lots of input from people in advance doing more things like



at those widgets mature in libraries that are using the what the G D

and sometimes they make it

and then they get review then we also the accessibility we usually fix accessibility issues

already only G D because we use the which is you know and sometimes they

don't like it and then they end up in those few applications that actually

use the widgets sometimes the widgets you can type budget to the different applications use


at the nice thing so far is that which is that have shown up in

G T K are a really useful for a lot of applications be the A

P I is actually a well thought out

at the widgets

i'm going to work because they had been used in that way

for a while

a very different thing

so yes i like that very much so if you have a which is that

you think lots of

applications i using attic you know develop

get in touch with

best and probably me that in doing that too late G D's one of the

cases i don't know what they act for a list box had it's a repository

but that's

does that still exist there's still of the box and that's so there's about a

repositories that we have that you can also use if you want to try those

we just but they of course don't have G P case

i guarantee


if you're not again develop

you but it's definitely interesting to look at them from time to time to figure


what we're

that you

i use you spoke a little bit of a of the back and so you

want to support but you didn't really talk about what might be on the other

side so a lot of people are saying she'd it is rapidly becoming to can

home toolkit how do you things like access to your and likes to you that

want to use G T K but you know maybe don't want to use all

the can don't hurt

so that's what i sat we want to be a platform bust integrate second

so if you want to use G T K to do your own that form

but it

but all that is very different from G T K

you that complaints probably for doing all those setting patches

i mean if you want to use G T K

you kind of

i mean the place where you use G T K

so you to become a G T K develop that push the to look at

in a different direction i can tell you from experience that takes quite some people


or you

have to pay

i'm not saying you have to take what we give you but you have to

talk to as and

i have to be prepared to get an though

yes i mean if you if you want if you want to write a lot

of all that uses G T K of them to look at

you better dissipated G T K somehow guy G T K to be the to

look at that you wanted to

otherwise certificate will be the going to because they can do people do that

this is just a theoretical concern like "'cause" i was i can tell what ecstasy

melody are just clones windows ninety five we kind of support that in you know

the menu success and i mean id is there actually any design coming from that

or there's various questions coming up but the they are very capital

to save like that like one of the things is when we did the place

a sidebar

the place aside box of the places side but have an entry for desktop

because we don't show the desktop and you know

but the desktop get show that it would do

and ecstasy

and i like stevie searchable file to the have an entry for the best well

that was one of the questions that showed up that i remember




so the best top needs to tell you

like all windows you probably one problem

all i was X you probably won't want to do they sell at the best

of what's the time

the people you get making the you know to look at comments are not just

talking about designed other also talking about like you approach to especially the pace of

the development you know we change things we make sure mostly works with gnome applications

and then that is that is what i sat with the people like we still

hobble we think we still want to be bold because we still don't have a

we still don't have G L

we want based things and everybody ones us to have a stake even the people

that play in that we are not stable a saying you should be stable and

also have these features

i guess that i don't think there is anybody right now that's as G T

K C D's today looks also let's freeze it and never touch it again and

then we're right applications

we still somewhere in the pros is what we do they will that

i would like this to be back sooner rather than later but

it's work and somebody has to do it doesn't happen it's

and that's all i can say about it can say we'll that year we set

that two years ago and that the what

any questions

okay thank you very much but