okay so the average age was about nineteen years old we had people who are

as young as nine

and as old as i was which was

twenty seven or twenty six

so pretty young

and you know you don't think like well for some people so i would be

know about formal software development right

they're just they were they were pretty much we need

and that would be important later

we had cooled things like swallowed laps

in those days we used to be able to take any X program and just

swallowed in to be the panel so we had all cries of interesting stuff

but really fit all these things all these features and options and so forth it

really was

on sustain

you know and we had

we had there was a big male that's was pretty famous and gonna buy havoc

pennington there's basically it says we can't keep doing this

and we have to improve

and one thing i heard about right is that just was are rated ready to

drop us

you know

and i say this is like because we're gonna go about why do we go

from one point a to point there's a lot of reasons why people to widen

we just keep doing what we were doing

so we were talking about two point

we were transitioning from

and immature board group of

boys and young men


something more formal right we were growing up as a project going on was growing

a we have to care about A P I N B I stability

we have to

worry about these things because application developers are saying well i can depend on this


it we can do any of this stuff because you keep changing things


we really had to get serious and

do something


i say that because today than i was a very conservative project right we don't

we don't allow for a patch as get extreme


so it's not easy to get in and being able to do something

so i this is sort of the background where we can


when we will to can own to there was a lot of also

i mean you know people are change

they just

the like and like there be like what did you do this why do but

you remove this feature what did you do that right and

and the thing is that

what do we knew about can really average back

what did been

again tickets consider a range right

free software was probably young you know and

we left

we like a lot of

things onset we had allowed are can you need to write our story for us


so when people you when you see these gold thread still say you see a

common theme complaints from people you know what

such as like every month points was like

we didn't we didn't and it wouldn't explain to them

why we change use X

we managed you can tell the context

we don't really give them anything to really

hold on to so

we allow people to write our story for us and we just went on you


whole bunch of complaints and you know it didn't matter that was free software back

that we all that everybody was yell that it was a bizarre model right that's

what you're doing


question is if you look back we said could we have done better


i don't know i don't know the answer for that i don't think we could

have done better

like i said a three to is relatively unheard

for that all that thank you many management

we don't really do that

and so

we just sort of let it pass and

do whatever you need to do

but then

after ten years of development

brno three came along

and it was a different well

but when we plan this really is

we spend an enormous amount of time and this is

we had videos we had great release notes i mean we never did a that

you know to i mean we never had the kind of release notes were doing

today arguably was by one of the best plan releases we did not want

what happened at we don't want that

four point thing but

i knew i knew that it was gonna be

hard just based on what happened what one or two point

because we really did change a lot of things right


for me personally i didn't want anybody to write our story

i didn't


we needed to be ready

when the onslaught occur


initial reactions

was not exactly what

wasn't was less than spectacular right i mean i think we could summon up to


the unholy mess that is be known three

which was done by

we used for about


can we really blame that right

we change me change interactions completely

we the interface is change completely we do niemann

there's nothing there was no bridge between be known to dig around three

how did one

go from one to the other especially if you've spent ten years on a our

work flow

and suddenly you want to this so it's not it's not always

it was not going to be so that

just because people had invested so much time on this on the desktop



there was a lot of outrage

i mean a lot of outrage

and we had a probably must


that's it can see

it's a different world out there right now trying to gonna two days you have

social wouldn't have to face but we didn't have

a whole any we have a lot we have footer whitman have a lot of



things can go bad news travels fast

bad news travels faster

ugly news travels even faster than that

so social really increases proliferation

and then you get you get this bad news you know this is the last

one that i meander you heard that joke many times

or maybe were staring into the abyss

there is there is

the there's all the stuff and then you know the news media picks it up

and it just goes on and on a not and the whole point is

how do you control all those you know and how do you control and make

sure that

we're always maintaining are best face forward

so i which is required a pretty they have these for damage control

and trying to make sure we change the conversation

so that's really the importance of engaging

it's important and greater kidder critics

explain our motivations

and the design and

when we engage

barbora communicating are intact right

we're saying this is why we're doing something

if somebody complains about the lack of feature or real terminal is solely not without

transfers you dear god why

it's not it's because

the specific reasons

and you know a lot some of that is because of not enough resources whatever

it is but if we don't challenge that then we fall into the same thing

right we're always talking about remove feature well we don't or remove transparency see they're

doing it again

and you have to be

always out there and

when you do

when you do go out there and you challenge your critics

they will see grouchy

i have turned i had done is many times somebody anybody on the internet can

sit there and

saves whatever battle there

if you come up there and you tell them that's not sure

i work are gonna

that's not true and they will back down

it has happened many times be conversation changes

and when the conversation changes you control the conversation you control the conversation and you

change the conversation

and that is one of the great benefits of engagement

because we are able to do

that kind of thing it's actually quite rewarding when you can change minds



is when you shouldn't do

don't engage don't sit around or stick your head in the same

you don't you don't wanna do that

because if you don't but something else writes it your story for you again it's

all about writing the story you don't wanna tell let somebody else saying this is

what can and stands for

this is what they do we don't want that all

so don't stick your hands and don't

don't disengage

you know when three pornos come out there was no developers out there now there's

a lot of the reasons for that and that was and they had just finished

report out there trying to stabilisation but there was no apparatus


hold all those creepy

critiquing are criticising right


we had

we have to do a lot of a lot of engagement i mean there and

there is our apparatus we have lots of high profile people yet used or about

that in the one are you have all these people who have this year to

the media complaining


we didn't really explain ourselves today


engage and

was slow

we start off very slow

we didn't we didn't have any mechanism to

talk about engagement in a tackle but we didn't have any mechanism to


show what we're doing right we had we had really snows we had all those

great stuff about how cool everything was


we didn't say why

why don't we do this

we didn't wouldn't do any that's that

and when usa what was the what was the reason why we had

you know hotspots or things like that what was the reason for all

so where was where was the explanation

for that

and so

that's where

things goes wrong right and

and you don't and you lose track of the conversation

so which really was time to get

serious right

we need to pull together

our communication channels and

really engage the community right so we did a number things we created the facebook

profile we created a tutor account we did a google plus

we did everything we could to make sure that we can control the message

we consolidated begin on name space on I R C we controlled entire signal space

nobody can create a good on channel without are say so


you know

i took on a lot

kernel developers picks like that

just happened my bad like that

i'd being game being employed that open source technology centre i also have to have

i also have a lock from developers and X developers and approach stick so you

why will go plus pages probably filled with flames

but you know

and i took it even further i actually searched

eighteen we have tag you know

engage them even i didn't did pass so i wasn't possible and that's all i

was impressed i went through and i found anybody i can any wild eyed person

on the internet i mean you know because it was worth it i went to

like read it and i would to read slashdot whatever it was

and you know i put myself out there because i need to make sure that

we we're putting are best face forward and we are communicating


how the how that there


i guess people to order based

but the google plus can is been pretty good

and even on L W N same thing

it can be really rewarding and you can change minds

and you and if even that they're not you know they're upset with you know

whatever it is

you have built a reputation for yourself

so your own personal reputation goes up

and people will look at user trustworthy resource

for anything related to good know or just as a person




and so and on the other the other common want to make was that you

know at this point

it's just a self sustaining

so we could have a bad news day

and we could see comments where we will actually see people say that why like

about three what's wrong with it so

before we didn't have any way in like in ago today's happy to these people

saying at it was silence now i have people's challenging

well i'm the people i i'm not you're doing that other people are doing that

and you know

it's great and we have forums now we have that we will plus pages are

have been on developers who are ford a rubber so going out there has been

questions even writing extensions sample extensions things like that is all huge positive things and

i think i think

despite whatever who are articles you see on planet or whatever it is you know


we're turning the corner this

you know returning the corner

so the question is

is our job


that's an interesting question

and i'm gonna say no i think not by a long shot we have a

lot of work to go into because it's a sustaining model continue moderate you're always

gonna have to do that because always gonna be amiss some misconception or something


so it's really important we continue to engage your own community our that our committee


what can be found out from disaster the posters that we also they need to

do outreach to our internally right

there are a lot of people who are maybe not sure about where we're going

or what for doing and we should really

have our conversation within ourselves

so that we don't have posted talks about

the last one a core

this or any other thing where people are not sure we should read if we

they should come to us and that's a that's a role that really managers to

be able to have someone to go to

to talk about doubts

instead of taking into the airways

right so

so we need to that's something we need to work we need to be able

to do community involvement internal


so drinking we might

i guess the number

different case you know a lot of people don't do what i do which is

will and engage people aggressively and

finding fights and here is probably are used a stipulate and good i was

well the thing to do is sort of a way to pass time and now

we have a bit of scotch

and whatnot

good times right good times so


but they're gonna do it right there that there's something is or if you're an

introvert you probably the support not something free

and if you're sensitive or you lose your temper a lot usually lose bought another

thing for you

you're a measure requires patience

and i mean a lot of patience

it also requires repeating yourself


you can have the you can have an argument you can repeat the same thing

over there is always something really interesting about that

because if you say it and you say in the soothing voice

they actually do

stop complaining


and they back up and sort of like okay

and they will try what you tried everything like green exit

the same thing

create a i think i have actually is that so

but the other thing is obviously part

no matter how ugly yes

be possible and you'll get to say that the previous screen i showed but people

say the argument compliments is precisely that if you're keeping a positive it or track

the other person you actually get results

so a couple times be sincere



in the and i know that some you know you need to be across a

cheerleader it something socks and you agree you say

i agree it sucks

people will believe you're always going to be defensive


so it's a if you don't this if you agree i agree you're right it's

something we need to work on

let me let me get back

it was about patience

D free software person

it's very emotional based

they are

passion is a double edge sword


the passion that drives people to write code

also dies and to be email

and it is it is that it's a fight a because they will blabber about

think so again

you gotta you gotta keep saying this is what we do it this is how

we doing this is why we doing you gotta have to repeat yourself and


i'm kind of repeating myself here and there but

you do need to keep positive and it is gonna be worthwhile

the other important point is

and this is something to learn from marketing i used when i was in college

i was actually part of a marketing

college group and we were selling

that we have the me stuff that we were

i providing

i opportunity companies to get interns from other countries

and what things

i think that there's some training when things you go through is that we're marketing

somebody you need to get something

anything head paper phone number


so i'm applying that principle to complainers

it somebody complains something i can why we're doing this way so the file but

help the bottle but do it can to get

then to invest

and the project some way some shape where for

i did i did this to kernel develop this

they start complaining and actually file but it's very easy to complain but if you

can get them to actually file and do something

big way

big way


be could definitely in we want to do that we wanna turn complacent to

in to do is if they don't like the direction of the project

get an ball jointed a foundation

do something

because only then you're gonna have a voice if you have a voice then you

have a way to change


that's how i've always approach people who complain is that

well you can't you can't complain

and then not invest time

that you don't get anything for free

so in the end it's a mixed bag

where they change their minds are not at least to remember you


really when you remember you then you can always restart the conversation elation because

nothing stays the same

the same thing happened one point you were many people that were stripe stabilised

people come back

so our works

everything nothing a static when people say i'm done jumper just one to katie

there we like there will be

katie will do something like come back

sorry does like the idea tell you that

the free stuff or animals or emotional first

couple yes

i want people to go out there and then

do can really measure it and then speaker to go foundation

you don't

really people or experience are people who kindled

be part of the project

because you are at that point representing you know

and it would be


if you had somebody who's done this before and you know you don't actually put

your foot in your mouth


so if you're into a problem we should contact me or somewhere else on the

marketing team


go out there engage

so this is pretty much a lot had for my top

i can have some questions


hi and it's not exactly question is mom like it can into just about complete

to say now i would like to say that i think that is important to

talk about complaints about them the fact that sometimes do something that is not very

clear a how do you see how you say sorry i think that is very

important to try to communicate to where we're going and the and the and try

to and to make the in the people to be trust to trust a while

the developer as a doing a for example have them this conversation on some years

ago one and don't really in a already written believe that just read the do

that and some people to all about this now is doesn't work of them to

was that the number but not a to say okay and you had some questions

to ask and so when people come from normal to me what can you i

write for this and for that the from this one a please the passion readjusting

the beginning so know be passion i ask in the don't ask sorry and the

weight that the developer make their work so i think that's very important am trying

to make the people understand that not everything would be done immediately so to have

trust in the community and this is this is good


that for the first or we will cover about our approach

those exactly what part is to be brushed for i think a lot there are

saying here is precisely that is

that's where the carriers as is don't put your for

right you're talking because

what's your hope you know you should be fresh

because you're older our reputation

in your as

so people will judge you that

when developers communicate you know i've seen i've seen things that make me cringe so

there was no you'll see you'll see you know developers going out of it kernel

developers and it's like my god okay and for them it's just like what in

was in the going to days it's just this bright they and i

i don't try i mean i jabbed and then just try to keep it simple

but it's not always

possible right this is the same kind of thing with the okay M L and

all that it's just it's just so something but the extra but i don't really

like i guess grows probably are just and going out of that's just really

not the way to behave at least certainly not for our side

the questions

right next regarding right i know