0:00:26okay my means time to go through interaction
0:00:31here today sanders risk connected you recent paper and symbolic interaction focused on relationship with
0:00:40how
0:00:41thank you very much here with us and talk state
0:00:45should be top
0:00:46together with you about what are the sixties how is present or
0:00:52as well as your experiences
0:00:56but is six use what was like the heyday of sociology so my cohort when
0:01:03i came into northwestern and sixty six
0:01:07head over sixty people
0:01:10and how we how we come to what was to your before
0:01:14so at a party bernie back says talk to predict back about what i'm interested
0:01:18says you need to meet how it back or
0:01:23and i at that time i didn't actually know how you back or was that
0:01:27northwestern head
0:01:30i read outsider's because i was kind of interest rate one
0:01:34and
0:01:36but i didn't where is the results of great
0:01:39but i never
0:01:41got to much cm other than you know like
0:01:43in the halls
0:01:44and tilt is filled fieldwork course that essentially everybody had to take
0:01:50and it was it was a great course because you come in the first day
0:01:55and how is there may be due to smoking at the time
0:01:59you hold the cigarette as mouth and
0:02:01squint against the smoke and there were twenty some odd students and he said
0:02:07that we had
0:02:08to by the next meeting get out into the have been in the field and
0:02:13bring back a few minutes
0:02:16none was seven with you
0:02:18slightest i have the slightest idea what that meant
0:02:21but it seems like
0:02:22get kicked into the pool
0:02:26that is
0:02:29well some sometimes fire sometimes i swear it is i think it was very scary
0:02:35for all of us and i think that's what's that the really the first important
0:02:39lesson you learned doing fieldwork is that it incredibly scary
0:02:45and it requires a lot of courage
0:02:49one for all of us to involved kerching a less for me because i decided
0:02:53i was involved in the club folk musician world so i decided that that's what
0:02:59i've got
0:03:01other people and certainly much students
0:03:05and my fieldwork course or are really scared by the experience
0:03:11it seems to me
0:03:14for you please use a you know writers was somewhat but also location paper we
0:03:22had a great intellectual
0:03:25into a more pure approach
0:03:31so
0:03:34what we compare this specifically way you approach
0:03:40however was very non directive
0:03:44what we didn't read anything in the field were course he didn't say okay these
0:03:48you're the text so this is stuff if the user articles you have to read
0:03:52we just given up higher like a bibliographic pile
0:03:57and if
0:03:58few for some of that looked interesting to read it
0:04:01or if it words you found to be useful
0:04:04but most of what the course involved was
0:04:08how we setting
0:04:10what's been going on this week
0:04:12and he would listen very carefully to this story sweet l is basically a narrative
0:04:16process and he would
0:04:19make points on the out of the stories
0:04:23and so the learning was very kind of back and forth and we were as
0:04:26responsible for the process of learning is as he wants
0:04:31so was very
0:04:33in the same way he views
0:04:36a field work as an inter tree iterative process
0:04:40he view the course itself as an iterative
0:04:45i guess there's always you can be approached by your re one would be
0:04:51the one proposed in particular
0:04:55another would be
0:04:57we use you can call type of self interest
0:05:02motivation past
0:05:04i feel for what we want to assume responsibility everything anything that might not directly
0:05:12right he was very much against a going into the field with preconceived notions
0:05:19having what he talked about is having an agenda
0:05:22he wasn't it he wasn't really for a genders
0:05:26i you can't going to any feel
0:05:29without some kind of basic idea of what's going on there
0:05:34but a lot of those if you're good field work are those basic ideas
0:05:39go away pretty so you're new find
0:05:42that that's not important but this other stuff that you had no idea about it's
0:05:46really important
0:05:47so how it talks about
0:05:49what he called sentimentality and how you had to avoid sentimentality
0:05:54which was essentially these preconceived notions of and political preconceived notions
0:06:01better actors blinders so you don't see what's really important
0:06:06and i one because there are very interesting for applications especially six
0:06:13but first i wanna ask questions from
0:06:18you comment on how we use my response stress clash
0:06:23in this was a very interesting question answer how to the style we use six
0:06:28for you have to use more how we how good i
0:06:40i think being as smart as how it is
0:06:45is a real advantage in doing that i think you one can pull it off
0:06:51and i kind of half arsed way
0:06:56by in the same way
0:06:58and non directive psychiatrist pulls it off
0:07:01or what do you think about that the send a private but how it was
0:07:06much better than that he would
0:07:08he would just toss out very small ideas but
0:07:13what is that remind you well
0:07:15i think were
0:07:18what what's that like
0:07:20this is something itself what is that like what you think that some like
0:07:24did you get the feeling when he is
0:07:29highly present with your answer
0:07:32two
0:07:34yes absolutely them he was very
0:07:38very much
0:07:39and that's a good field where it was very much focused on what was the
0:07:43exchange was what's going on
0:07:47and he was
0:07:48indeed it is interesting "'cause"
0:07:50he was not only it's
0:07:54a good interviewer and this is something was really good about how a good interview
0:07:58where is listening to you rather than thinking about the next thing he's going to
0:08:03say and that's exactly the way how we work
0:08:06okay
0:08:08exactly
0:08:09another question or rubber in this paper we describe how rather than the correlation between
0:08:16your account
0:08:19at the same time how is clearly needed for contributions
0:08:25can you say anymore have brought to see sociology next round people
0:08:32clearly doesn't make connections between what to the next
0:08:36you can see criticises where
0:08:41howie and i think you explicitly talks about the cs theory is kind of in
0:08:47inconvenient necessity
0:08:51then we never
0:08:53we never really in a certain in this class talked about
0:08:57theory explicitly at least early on
0:09:01what we talked about is what people and how it how it says that a
0:09:05very often
0:09:07blinds us or
0:09:11the flights us from seeing what's really going on that's what's important is that
0:09:18people are doing things together and how they understand what they're doing in the meaning
0:09:23structure that under words that
0:09:25and
0:09:27if you
0:09:29go into the field thinking that you're looking for
0:09:34institutional power structures and things like that
0:09:38where the kinds of things you more about the ins as a sociologist you're going
0:09:43be very disappointed "'cause" you won't see what you will see
0:09:46are people doing things together so that's what you focus on one and it is
0:09:50out of that
0:09:53that should begin to see certain patterns
0:09:56and it's out of those patterns that you begin to make sense of what's going
0:10:00on and that's out of that sense making process
0:10:04you begin to develop a which crudely we can call theory
0:10:09in this is the main story transition some time transition still happens in this one
0:10:17because i think
0:10:21that might indicate that his mel
0:10:26but you know how it is
0:10:28more work on the right
0:10:33you know coined the term or more
0:10:37right so this is related to cultural sociologist at least organisation
0:10:44i use that channel where variation
0:10:48to describe ways the actors
0:10:51tend to shape
0:10:53in used in three years it's to define the relationship between structure
0:11:03but the slow to fast but also show how he's making really theoretical genius
0:11:14how he was always
0:11:16one two
0:11:18value poking convention malady in the i
0:11:22so i'm i think
0:11:25that is a hunch that he's
0:11:29what sometimes might be seen as an entire theory
0:11:33position
0:11:34it's kind of poking conventional sociology i
0:11:38but
0:11:39what's really important just theory rather than understanding what's going on and some kind of
0:11:43real well
0:11:45but it certainly
0:11:47he has major responsible for developing broad range or something
0:11:53the what's crudely called labelling theory is basically
0:11:58you know he didn't
0:11:59think it up originally but he developed at important
0:12:06the collective action the whole way in which collective action works in
0:12:11the art world so various other kinds of productive world is really central to work
0:12:18a whole lot of people are doing
0:12:20the concept of more entrepreneurs is
0:12:23as you know spread too wide variety of disciplines
0:12:27so i again how it was not and tie theory he was just
0:12:33and tie being
0:12:36taken up solely with three
0:12:40so
0:12:42with regard how this approach to more complex plane
0:12:47one for
0:12:50this notion of what you say you bring to be too close
0:12:56he just behind one of sentimental you explicitly then the next close to three interested
0:13:05what you three your work house and she
0:13:16i really finds himself wonders is a form
0:13:24for some time
0:13:30otherwise not able to see that stage
0:13:36i think what how it was doing in talking about sentimentality and its dangers have
0:13:45a lot to do with political tender the time and all the whole bunch of
0:13:49us we're going in there you know right on brother and smash the state
0:13:57and
0:13:58the shape
0:14:00for that was interesting
0:14:03but
0:14:04one at all of us to avoid those
0:14:08preconceptions and see that stuff is what's important
0:14:11and so in that sense if the freedom derives from not be found by preconceptions
0:14:19not being bound by convention l t not being down by
0:14:25everyone knows is the case of one party was always attacking
0:14:29but how is how it has always intact is the i d is that
0:14:36what everyone knows
0:14:39actually should have some weight
0:14:43because what we use sociologist should do is look behind what everybody that
0:14:48and you see that actually what everybody knows is
0:14:53useful for song
0:14:55oppressive to others and
0:14:59but something that shouldn't should less be excepted
0:15:02then something that is question
0:15:05that's to include position is not necessary at all
0:15:11exactly
0:15:13and the political position
0:15:16however it importantly made the distinction between
0:15:20upon political position that one pass a person the as a person task
0:15:27and the political position that one moves into their sociology
0:15:34he was very much against the latter in very much for the former
0:15:39you know is a look
0:15:41what we should we don't if we think
0:15:45races in this a bad thing
0:15:47why in the world do we need sociology to prove that
0:15:52we know what then i know i can fight against it as an individual citizen
0:15:57in this society
0:15:59but we don't the science to prove
0:16:02oppression we don't need science to prove races and we don't need science to prove
0:16:07the impression of you know gender
0:16:09oppression
0:16:11it we it's something that we as citizens can fight against
0:16:17the that it's all that which side of you are you one notion that he
0:16:20talks
0:16:22final question from more
0:16:25which was taken from how scepticism useful all actions label for i
0:16:34just people to sociology particular just try
0:16:40you might not be tall
0:16:43to use it would be talking face interactions to right
0:16:50we would never talk
0:16:52about symbolic interaction isn't per se
0:16:56and the like and
0:16:57to talk about it but the theory courses and stuff but how we didn't talk
0:17:01about symbolic interaction is a man and a lot of
0:17:05his interview some of the center frequencies talks fairly negatively about interactions
0:17:11and i think that's
0:17:13because
0:17:17we can see saul much of
0:17:20inter the interaction is literature as getting away from what he thought was important as
0:17:26getting into
0:17:27the minutia of arguments about this year that only small element the theory
0:17:34or
0:17:35you know what need really meant by this
0:17:38when he didn't have much patience for that stuff any i'd i don't think it
0:17:42does i don't to get much patience for the kind of
0:17:46things that came into interaction is sociology as
0:17:51you know the post modernist face of interaction of sociology at the rabbits
0:17:57that stuff as a
0:18:00i that a bit beyond the kinds of things he was interest
0:18:05and so is that one point he says well when i read symbolic interaction the
0:18:09journal there's just not a lot in there that really interest me
0:18:15and i think that's because it was getting away from
0:18:18the basic notion of
0:18:20interaction a sociology is actually what people do with each other day and a
0:18:28project i think is important lesson personal
0:18:33the only thing
0:18:37no
0:18:38i shall i a drill team journals can think
0:18:44it's good beer
0:18:59o