0:00:10this is a talk on extreme containment measures
0:00:13phone and language will be might be used for those who don't know me an
0:00:18example so i mean i don't know how like and i've been involved in one
0:00:22way or another since roughly two thousand and five
0:00:25and obviously with my first touch points for the gnome community have in panic no
0:00:31and buttons it up i spend a lot of time filing and three icing bugs
0:00:39and my character has level to well level reach the whole forty three in the
0:00:44massively multiplayer online knowing that is complex a lot so in this talk i'm going
0:00:50to present my analyses of the big issues that we face
0:00:55and proposed methodology and a set of recommendations to solve these issues
0:01:02i have some rather strong opinions and of course those are just my suggestions so
0:01:08if you think that what i'm saying is completely evil well then feel free to
0:01:14rage against my medical is an and i'd the talk is pretty going to be
0:01:18rather short so we should have plenty of time to discuss in the
0:01:25i would like to have a big debate at the end if i don't have
0:01:28some kind of reaction i probably failed and then we just have to go to
0:01:33the beach or something but well way there's no beach here
0:01:38i have some assumptions that some of you might already have seen some of this
0:01:44stuff that i wrote set couple months ago
0:01:49but it's really if you want to know where mike kind of philosophy comes from
0:01:54a summary of mine ways of thinking i have been strongly influenced by the mythologies
0:01:59like getting things done or involve zero which is basically just getting things done but
0:02:04apply to an e-mail really so if you haven't read those things i highly recommend
0:02:10then in if you're the kind of person who likes to be organised
0:02:19all based on actually
0:02:22the sound doesn't work a
0:02:26so it doesn't matter anyway so those books are interesting and everything but if you
0:02:30really think about it
0:02:32the core essence has always been about what's been going on in the world of
0:02:35manufacturing for the last
0:02:37thirty years so
0:02:40lean and just in time manufacturing is it's a fascinating concept and
0:02:46well i was doing studies in management
0:02:49i started thinking about those things and how they applied pretty much everything we do
0:02:55in life
0:02:56from your personal to do this to managing a candy factory to managing a software
0:03:02development project
0:03:05and when you think about it everything is about slow
0:03:09about good and adapting to change so you have something close in and you have
0:03:15stuff that those out and you want this to be constant and so it and
0:03:20and you want to avoid committing stuff because as soon as you have to make
0:03:23stuff well things will below i can guarantee and
0:03:28and there's this interesting thing from one of the books i've mentioned previously is the
0:03:34only keeping that you should be retained from in the gold writes a book
0:03:38in the context of but management is this
0:03:42excess invent three is the liability it's not an asset
0:03:47in that in the manufacturing world actually that means the stuff that you have produced
0:03:52and now you think well okay wait that's just wrong the product is work something
0:03:58right we're gonna sell it and then so it's and it's not set
0:04:01it's natural to think that way
0:04:05except that you don't know the market constraints until useful that you're not selling it
0:04:10me immediately if you were you wouldn't be in the inventor E you will you
0:04:15would you would just be selling it and making a profit
0:04:18and so what this means is that is stuff that just sits around until it
0:04:24might be sold
0:04:26and then it devalues it waste this resources and it clogs up the system
0:04:33in our context
0:04:35that means connective wait
0:04:39that's a concept that i took from getting things know that don
0:04:47you think things know miss we can also that by the weights
0:04:51so it's is it translates to wasted time searching for existing but reports split attention
0:04:58on duplicates wasted energy looking for well it's good same bugs that were kept open
0:05:05or because we were close to soon and
0:05:09it all it's also feels like an incorrect indication of the quality of your software
0:05:16we have a problem here
0:05:19we are accumulating excess eventually
0:05:22lots of it
0:05:23and fast
0:05:25and it's slowing us down
0:05:27of course pretty much every project out there has this problem
0:05:31and you to the fact that you know is such a large ecosystem
0:05:36of this can ecosystem projects that have been going on for over fifteen years
0:05:42well we and we don't have unlimited the mat time and manpower
0:05:48the consequences is just going exponential
0:05:52so allow non you're thinking well okay maybe is just exaggerating
0:05:56so let me show you the problem we have in a very concrete way
0:06:02this is the global amount of open but report thinking on since the beginning
0:06:07i'm actually and missing data between two thousand and one or two thousand and five
0:06:11but i'm pretty sure the amount of focus has not drastically going down during that
0:06:16period so i just put some random guy on a bike right
0:06:20feel the whole
0:06:22so that's
0:06:23forty five thousand bug reports that we have open right now and i'd argue that
0:06:30this is not sustainable this stuff is often times so old and they see that
0:06:36doesn't even represent to real amount bugs that users experience
0:06:41so let me this is with it this way i don't know the but you
0:06:45i as a user
0:06:48if i was feeling the weight of forty five thousand bucks
0:06:53every day
0:06:54i wouldn't be using the computer that's all i would probably be crying in a
0:07:03well who's responsible for this would we point fingers to well pretty much everybody to
0:07:08some extent
0:07:09it's really easy to let things
0:07:12slipped and rest of the time
0:07:15and so i'm going to show you some examples and those are not meant to
0:07:21finger pointing or anything like that they are just meant to in the illustrates how
0:07:25different projects
0:07:27and all their bug infantry differently
0:07:29and well i think it's quite interesting really
0:07:37first case it is really
0:07:40it was fairly nice the under control is a can see and then the port
0:07:44to webcat happened
0:07:48and many things changed including the apps branding and positioning
0:07:53because now epiphany is
0:07:56this really mean stripped down a way more than it was before so that's
0:08:03a different positioning you don't have the same kind of features that want to deal
0:08:09and well we can infer that the green bugs were filed by the developers right
0:08:15from the start because they were
0:08:17that is new which means conferencing you know
0:08:20and we see that we got the that green curve gradually declining in importance in
0:08:26the past few years
0:08:28but not that much
0:08:30so well gradually declining
0:08:33in absolute terms so some of those very old bugs that these files from the
0:08:38some of them have been fixed in that's a great thing but there's this really
0:08:42big red line that's goes that's going on and i think that in the case
0:08:49of epiphany we have this huge cleanup opportunity
0:08:53because support of web to work it
0:08:55changes everything changes everything the backend so all those bugs were reported back when epiphany
0:09:01was running on a call the well the last firefox that something engine they are
0:09:08they need to be retested or
0:09:10in many cases than we know that they are fixed we so you have this
0:09:14cleanup opportunity and there is also the fact that the you why is so much
0:09:19simpler and does not want to do everything that the old you white one did
0:09:24that's also another clean up opportunity
0:09:28so that was the case that you have epiphany
0:09:31and well and that is just a generic example is fairly under control that bill
0:09:37died but the end that was me because i started thinking up some stuff but
0:09:44life happens and i didn't continue that much
0:09:48so it looks like a typical glow module
0:09:53evolution is a special case
0:09:56notice that actually use the new status
0:09:59and that there was this amazing improvement somewhere in the
0:10:05somewhere in guess advocate and if i'm not mistaken a big part of that is
0:10:10thanks to on the clapper is he here
0:10:14is that true
0:10:18well thank you all day
0:10:21i you that you that one
0:10:25so but there's still this
0:10:28huge amount of bug reports left to deal with so
0:10:32that defined ahead all day and
0:10:36no show
0:10:40i have many things to say about the way the project handle it's bug reports
0:10:45but i fear might hurt some feelings so maybe i'll keep that for discussions in
0:10:50the hallways or maybe at the ways question period at the end so
0:10:55but anyway it's gonna it's gonna just flow naturally with the
0:11:00the techniques i'm suggesting in the rest of the stock and
0:11:05G T K it needs help
0:11:09it has a lot of old bugs so you as you can see so over
0:11:13two thousand to a two thousand five hundred
0:11:16no actually you have to you have to add up the lines actually it's not
0:11:21there are cumulative
0:11:24so it has a lot a lot a lot of old bugs that are certainly
0:11:28not relevant anymore
0:11:30it basically needs an army of testers
0:11:34and i from a net contributor once said to me
0:11:39i am not subscribe to did you to give about males
0:11:41i don't look at the bug tracker
0:11:44when it comes to fix in biology books in G T K
0:11:47whoever catches me first on our C in the morning wins
0:11:52we have a problem
0:11:57and of our case to illustrate is a bit to be which is also another
0:12:01special based
0:12:04i'm arrogant enough to think that this is kind of how things should be at
0:12:09i like at least like this or better and this
0:12:12the new bugs are more numerous than the unconfirmed bugs
0:12:18and they are kind of kept on the control so i the thing that i
0:12:23actually haven't mentioned is that all those graphs they are not on the same scale
0:12:27the are all related to their own
0:12:30their own total so evolution you went from like five thousand to three thousand to
0:12:36a little bit nicer i think it's about the thousand now and you take a
0:12:40as you could see was the at two thousand five hundred B T V the
0:12:44scale here is a hundred and fifty the upper bounds so if you add things
0:12:51up it's about two hundred two hundred and forty fifty bucks half of that is
0:12:55the feature requests
0:12:57feature requests and
0:13:00and this graph is going to eventually come crashing down in the next be to
0:13:05be really switch it will happen any day now as i close a bunch of
0:13:10those old bug reports
0:13:13and i ching this advertising you might be interested in attending maybe to talk tomorrow
0:13:18at the end of the for details
0:13:21britain box is another it well it's in a similar situation to G T K
0:13:26it needs help
0:13:28it has at on of potential duplicates and in change book reports
0:13:36i certainly don't feel like i'm encountering a thousand bug it i thousand four hundred
0:13:43bucks when i'm listening to my music library
0:13:46so i don't think there are that many buttons thing with some box it is
0:13:52nobody closest box i think
0:13:55so well let's talk about quality and let me shut up or while and think
0:14:00of a bit a while what is quality this is an open question for you
0:14:05folks to answer
0:14:08how should we can own define how we measure quality
0:14:23it's all about the users in the
0:14:29the company incoming number of bug reports
0:14:39i wonder
0:14:42any other ideas
0:14:47static and the statistical analysis
0:15:00well it doesn't crash
0:15:02the you know of an application that doesn't crash ever
0:15:07it works once should it should it
0:15:12well how do we know that we're
0:15:15that we're better off as a whole
0:15:17compared to two thousand five
0:15:23in any case
0:15:26we can probably agree that the amount of bug reports we hadn't noble to that
0:15:30is not a strong indication of the quality of our software
0:15:37and this is a partial quote from joe was able ski
0:15:41at some point you start wondering what is people love my software
0:15:47one hell have so many but reports
0:15:50open then there waiting increase crashing down my soul
0:15:55it in this article so argues that
0:15:59force the actually advocate for something pretty rack radical he says
0:16:04do not allow for more than two weeks in fixing time
0:16:08of bugs to accumulate in the bug database
0:16:12so if you have more than that you stop and you fix books until you
0:16:16feel like you're fixing stupid bugs
0:16:19and then you close all the remaining but reports
0:16:22and he says don't worry december break this either bogs will come back
0:16:27okay that's a crazy radical thing to do
0:16:31that's not what applying to our if those as an as open source developers typically
0:16:37especially if we're talking about volunteer work
0:16:40where we don't necessarily have that seeing the regularity the manpower to fix bugs at
0:16:45the steady pace
0:16:49so how do we do it
0:16:51you're thinking maybe well okay that's easy if you're only dealing with feature requests
0:16:57or about then
0:17:00what do you do with longstanding bugs
0:17:02or what do you we do with the pickets
0:17:07well we need to get serious about control
0:17:13and by see resign mean many things
0:17:15the right from the cards and philosophy in the manufacturing will
0:17:21and cards and is basically this is also called five S system sadie sate on
0:17:27say suppose and stick it so then it's okay it's translating to send it sizing
0:17:32which is get rid of stuff
0:17:35organising cleaning maintaining the D V cleaning less and disciplined enough to catering this methodology
0:17:46we have forty five thousand bugs we need to start cleaning now and we need
0:17:50just keep cleaning as we go in the future
0:17:54so now we can apply some other things like inbox zero
0:17:58and box there was basically just a mindset we say what is this mindset we're
0:18:03dealing with email but we can apply to but management to some extent when you
0:18:07receive an email you can either delete it you can transfer
0:18:11to somebody else you can respond immediately
0:18:15or you can market to be processed later because you're waiting on something else to
0:18:19happen in the universe
0:18:21or you do the action that you email sender requests
0:18:25and we can apply that
0:18:26to are but
0:18:30and basically decision-making boils down to three possibilities
0:18:37it's and you could see that
0:18:40need info is not
0:18:43actually this that there but it's really important
0:18:48you have to use meeting full aggressively
0:18:52you helps you identify obsolete bugs by simply running a search for bugs that have
0:18:57been in them in the info state for
0:18:59over two months or something
0:19:02and confirming bugs is actually important
0:19:06very few projects just actually confirmed the box
0:19:10one thing i would strongly at of okay for tech actually is that we replace
0:19:14the new statist by conference in can on box it up even though many people
0:19:20will probably throw rotten fruit and me for saying that because i don't know many
0:19:24people don't believe in confirmation about this
0:19:28i think it could make an
0:19:30add difference psychologically speaking
0:19:36indecision is power lights is
0:19:39if you leave at seven years old bug report open because it's in unconfirmed states
0:19:44and because nobody has made a decision
0:19:47it's not gonna help to attain a learning process
0:19:51so whatever possible we want to clear yes or no if we don't decide now
0:19:57we probably never will there's a question over there
0:20:01we have a microphone
0:20:05you can shop and
0:20:08and are given the microphone or i will read tweed the question
0:20:14hi i'm i guess possibly five maybe ten percent of the box it might box
0:20:20of the overflow folder where i've set they lock and so this picture and i
0:20:25say sorry ask a not about
0:20:28and they rip in the back
0:20:30and i say still i think still not still not gonna happen close the book
0:20:34that in the park and i just pick of well
0:20:37magically we box with the
0:20:39the report just keeps reopening them
0:20:46i think that so that's it comes that a little bit later
0:20:49actually that's with the previous like to some extent
0:20:55if it's a bug well okay a bogus should be fixed
0:20:59but if it's a feature requests
0:21:01well there are three types
0:21:04either you agree with the thing is a absolutely i wanna do it so
0:21:08yes confirmed and everything if you are confident that you can actually fix it
0:21:13either your like not this really doesn't fit the vision so no out of scope
0:21:20and there's a middle ground where side while i could like this feature but i
0:21:25don't really care that much and i don't have them apart is that your case
0:21:31we should be constant
0:21:34so in the case where they suggest something this we could have anything that we
0:21:37could have
0:21:39and you say catches welcome and then nothing happens just close it
0:21:46so what i would do
0:21:49i would markets as enhancements
0:21:52with and i would highly it with the goal of help want to do and
0:21:55everything should but then is so it's not gonna as an enhancement it's not about
0:21:59report and at some points
0:22:02after three years you can't we all the patch
0:22:05or after
0:22:07i'm saying three years but maybe after one year or two years
0:22:11if there is no clear indication if it's like one guy in the in some
0:22:17faraway country we carry can strays it down so instead of
0:22:22twenty people saying plus one plus one plus one and then you could say well
0:22:28these your open this bug report this enhancement request when you have a patch because
0:22:32i cut but then comes in the can replies which i will cover that there
0:22:37there is out in with a question
0:22:48but i know it's difficult
0:22:51to come back to the question we do it in the form a we had
0:22:55a czech cult your job
0:22:58a dish in addition to the enhancement and we provides help to get it it's
0:23:04a great it's like you know which files to you have to add it's by
0:23:07do you have to start
0:23:11then the other thing to remember is that
0:23:14it's probably not useful to have
0:23:17five hundred
0:23:18yes would like this but we're not gonna work on that box because it's not
0:23:22helpful from you contribute is either like is much better to have
0:23:26these of the top twenty things we want you to do if you wanna contribute
0:23:31and just maintain that list and you know we will still be in the database
0:23:35even if you close then you can still kind of search for close but i
0:23:39with no love the something the not gone forever
0:23:42so you can you can manage a list that one
0:23:46you could indeed have some kind of special search for
0:23:49bugs that well feature requests
0:23:52that times out because nobody has a bad
0:23:55it could be done
0:23:58the questions
0:24:01i sell continue glorious past
0:24:08so here yes i don't know whenever possible when you it's not possible
0:24:14use this wonderful thing called time to figure out if there is actually real interest
0:24:20that can help you
0:24:23i mean part of the open source thing is that we want people to be
0:24:29annoyed enough to contribute to our project
0:24:32so if after three years nobody there is to make a patch for it
0:24:38maybe it's not important enough
0:24:40maybe it's not annoying enough
0:24:46you either oppose it can from and something else
0:24:50and using target milestones is actually pretty important and useful to and it allows you
0:24:57to know
0:24:58but maybe that's just a personal thing i do with the P T V about
0:25:03it allows you to know which bugs were fixed for web version exactly
0:25:08and it also helps a lot when you're releasing
0:25:12because you just have to search for results bugs that were
0:25:15attached to a given milestone and then you write the release notes or just point
0:25:20to the link saying that was where the bugs that were fixed drink for this
0:25:23release even if this book was ten years old it was finally fixed for this
0:25:27release and you can see all that kind of information directly in the bug tracker
0:25:35so when i was saying about yes-no fix it immediately are deferred or say just
0:25:41when i say fix it into the i do mean fix it and then controls
0:25:45the bug report
0:25:47unless the feature is still broken and i mean really broken let me illustrate this
0:25:52but i need sound for this to work and i'm not sure i do have
0:26:02or is there anything that controls the somewhere here
0:26:11not normally
0:26:15well one what lot of speakers all i could like what microphone
0:26:20that's gonna be also
0:26:49that was a former so you're that
0:26:54ghetto blaster microphone like so
0:26:58what do i mean by this
0:27:01you've got a fixed for about that you have committed to your master brian what
0:27:05you are a little bit unsatisfied with the cost quality
0:27:10then you add some comments in your code and a to do item on your
0:27:14personal this but do not keep your bug report open insisting because when you'd like
0:27:19to come is a better implementation
0:27:22you don't show some
0:27:25by the way to not close bugs until the fix has been marriage
0:27:30the main development branch
0:27:32is the fix is only committed to a separate branch well you can market as
0:27:37assigned another underused but reports that is
0:27:41and then
0:27:43you can market is assigned until it goes into monster and of course you said
0:27:47yes find email because that's pretty
0:27:54no is actually pretty famous for daring to say no out of scope
0:27:59but saying you know without ending up on the front page of slashdot is actually
0:28:04a very delicate art
0:28:06you can't implement everything out there due to insufficient manpower or because feature X would
0:28:12go against projects vision or intended user experience
0:28:16and for that i can't miss i age helps a lot
0:28:21people we with will respect your decision more if we know your constraints and why
0:28:26you have to say no
0:28:29so by can message
0:28:34i kind of message is the message that you composed for something that's basically as
0:28:39if you for book reports
0:28:41if there is non available you create one and you save it as a text
0:28:45file on your computer for reuse that way you don't end up
0:28:51being super frustrated of always having to type the same explanation to why this cannot
0:28:57be done or why this will not be done
0:29:00and you don't and i'm just saying nope and ending up on news sites
0:29:06for example you could have something that was like this
0:29:09hi and thanks for reporting this bug
0:29:12P T V score is currently being replaced by the distributing services which is a
0:29:17major undertaking an overhaul and we suddenly can't investigate much bucks the talk sure on
0:29:22the traditional core of it see
0:29:25we will revisit this
0:29:27a by the next please which will use gas and hopefully your issue may be
0:29:31gone by that new release
0:29:33otherwise we will appreciate your help in testing it out thanks
0:29:38so that's the kind of thing i don't want to read be typing on the
0:29:41spot ever again
0:29:43so i keep it as a text file on my computer
0:29:47so you should
0:29:51you should
0:29:52there we do have ten for advising them back to that but they don't
0:29:57necessarily corner the specifics or of your project so it's nice to have those custom
0:30:02kind replies on your computer
0:30:04for example for the meeting full stuff with custom debugging instructions for your project
0:30:14searching is every nice thing is you can see the bottom of the screen i
0:30:17have a lot of special saved searches so that's
0:30:22that seems a bit silly but it's really useful in taking away the pain of
0:30:29money string the bugs and the patterns and the stuff that for example i want
0:30:33to see all the bugs that are older than four hundred days and that have
0:30:36dot have any patch
0:30:39that's use of useful for finding that
0:30:43and not just a little edits hyperlink in the book title
0:30:48like and it's
0:30:50super hard to spot actually
0:30:53not many people know it actually exists
0:30:57you can use that to rename the bug report as the same time as you
0:31:01are commenting other changes
0:31:03and then you can use a book good bug title slash summary
0:31:07so you can make a complete sentence with exact words
0:31:11and choosing the right words improve fired see it makes to bug user to find
0:31:17prevents duplicates
0:31:19makes coffee so it's
0:31:24actually i go
0:31:25i go a little bit tougher and that i use synonyms like and i think
0:31:30of all maybe someone is gonna think of that for when searching so i use
0:31:35multiple words that mean the same thing in that title
0:31:39for example some example of good and back well good and bad
0:31:43but titles
0:31:46all the first one is not that compelling well old one was share my the
0:31:49stuff the item in the menu lot of life you know is a registered hundred
0:31:52immensely five
0:31:54i nine we need to do all initially share make this a menu item if
0:31:57you know is a well
0:32:00the second one is more interesting it's a bug in them to this U which
0:32:04was titled show where files come from no or maybe it was just what i
0:32:09thought at first and then i thought well i'm i need a better it but
0:32:13title instead provide context allow users to know the path slash location from where files
0:32:18and folders and search results come from so that way if someone searches for past
0:32:24or location or search or results
0:32:27or context you they're gonna find that a real easily
0:32:33and some other examples
0:32:35for example the first example
0:32:39people searching for words such as sound or ring tone or call will find that
0:32:45about report easily
0:32:50the one near the middle if you search for G E mail i not message
0:32:56account you're gonna find this but before
0:33:01so keywords a really nice
0:33:05i use gnome love all the time i don't know might is normal of all
0:33:09the time is make is
0:33:11is really easy to just type every bugs that are kind of easy
0:33:17that you don't really have time or motivation to tackle or that you actually you
0:33:22could do it in two minutes maybe for feature request
0:33:26but you have more urgent things to do and you kind of want to use
0:33:30them to lure people into contributing your project
0:33:33so i do that's
0:33:37i'm not sure about help want to but i think it's just for stuff that
0:33:41you are yourself
0:33:43unable to tackle
0:33:46and the distinction between usability and you want reviews of that youtube it send clear
0:33:52but so i think the you wire if you is when you want to call
0:33:54out and they to the rescue
0:33:56and there's a bunch of other keywords that are less use
0:34:03so divide and conquer
0:34:07don't do it on if possible do it in teamwork maybe would but T I's
0:34:12maybe to google hangouts
0:34:15or but fests i don't know if that just actually something a word
0:34:22there is also a to fill it moves are made the script
0:34:26once some time and to force him to revisit ten bucks a day
0:34:32i think this is five bucks a day but if you read the code this
0:34:35is actually it's ten bucks today
0:34:39so you can grab descriptive your if you need extra something in your face
0:34:46and well to recap basically you want to need info everything your hands for unsure
0:34:52about in six months with that special search query you close any remaining needed for
0:34:58that has not been clearly answered
0:35:00if the norm box quite doesn't do it for you for free
0:35:07if you are a developer who knows the project vision
0:35:11well you have to show some courage and say no or patch or it won't
0:35:19and if you're not a developer or if you like experience but have jobs
0:35:24most project of appears would be very happy to have any kind of help interesting
0:35:30the bug so
0:35:32you can ask for yes slash no decision on any given bug
0:35:38and then that way you getting some experience in know what's the vision what and
0:35:46so you also have to do render regular cleanup sessions every few months
0:35:51or when there is a major technologist goal or
0:35:56idealistic all change going on
0:36:00so that means that you have to know the know the big projects on your
0:36:03road map and
0:36:06see that fortunate is popping up such as hold on touch bugs
0:36:10core engine changes like P T Vs switch to T S or if you can
0:36:14use which to web get
0:36:16and or big you why redesigns
0:36:20stuff like that
0:36:22and you can run search queries to search and verify all the bugs that are
0:36:27older and four hundred days eight hundred days
0:36:30chances are that they are fixed already they are obsolete
0:36:35let's go duplicates
0:36:37or just plain crack
0:36:39and i mean like wracked is probably like requesting features from the eighties that zero
0:36:44point one percent of users actually care about
0:36:50that's it it's nothing revolutionary it's just i hope that's somewhat useful now you can
0:36:56probably questions comments and insults
0:36:59and i'm pretty sure i must have overlooked or focus in something
0:37:04and that's have a chance
0:37:20i also you have very nice lines
0:37:24and you sounds to do you made an example that people don't even know that
0:37:30you can change the talking book so but i don't think that's the only problem
0:37:35not the only a interface problem of books of the i think so it's a
0:37:41all those stuff would improve the blue
0:37:45then would it looks a little buttons took something move gonna
0:37:50thing is that you would have to find the bug tracker that is much better
0:37:54that numbers about any is if we an open source project actually free an open
0:37:58source project and can handle huge buffaloes
0:38:02and or the sysadmins are gonna hate us and
0:38:09i mean these days many people many projects smaller projects the just to the but
0:38:16that issues management on get hub or stuff like that but that's proprietary i don't
0:38:20i don't think it's open source at all and some do it on know nobody
0:38:25uses source forge are anymore it's so crap and
0:38:31the thing
0:38:34i few years ago i have was actually looking for a bug tracker that would
0:38:38be at least equal in quality and versatility to bugs it out and that could
0:38:43actually installed without that phd on and my home server and i didn't find anything
0:38:49and actually a book sellers was it a bit too complex for me to install
0:38:54but i didn't find anything
0:38:57that i like really much more than books
0:39:02like there's bookseller lunch but this is it's okay but many people created and there's
0:39:06google codes
0:39:07which is not open source i don't
0:39:11we don't really have i don't know if we have an of the native out
0:39:17if so
0:39:19why not consider it
0:39:22out of time
0:39:29anyway if anybody else has questions or fruit rotten fruit to throw i will be
0:39:34in the hallway
0:39:36that's it