Speech Transcript - Panel discussion: Wayland, the road ahead

0:00:10	because you i think everything that talking on the
0:00:14	so question you know
0:00:16	i can join us like product this year
0:00:20	i so you know nice easy question this talk with what's your sixty second package
0:00:25	for while and
0:00:32	better that's a so that that's common question in this one that that's always hard
0:00:37	times of but i think the key idea is that if you look at the
0:00:42	way most modern uses a mix use X today isn't that they've don't actually use
0:00:48	X we have a composite or that that's responsible for presenting everything on screen
0:00:53	and
0:00:54	we have clients that really just wanna put push your content to the composite are
0:00:58	and it find we have input going into the X to which we don't know
0:01:02	with window we should be going to and
0:01:06	in the middle there's the X i was sitting there trying to talk clients and
0:01:10	talk to composite or with an external process but what we were you want to
0:01:13	build today second possible the talks directly to the kinds not had any middle name
0:01:18	that sits there and doesn't do anything so it it's
0:01:21	a big part of the idea is to just cut out there's this big old
0:01:25	me demanding and get a straight path five to composite are and we got a
0:01:29	lot of in small benefit from this and big benefits in the in the process
0:01:34	you know
0:01:37	what the basic idea is that if we look at the system we have today
0:01:40	and if we were to design a graphics that tools to support that user experience
0:01:44	there's just no way you wind up inexorably to
0:01:48	okay thank you know the more than six seconds by get like
0:01:53	so you know what way to form of this one side a few questions prepared
0:01:57	but anytime i wanted to get some questions to think that or question myself of
0:02:04	an owl and
0:02:07	so if you do any questions please makes visible we when we have a question
0:02:11	again
0:02:12	so
0:02:14	first question gets is michael sorted you can think about a nice mission which is
0:02:18	you know
0:02:20	and who
0:02:21	there might be the i so do you said you see when in the dark
0:02:24	as it the X eleven
0:02:27	you know what you she's it key advantages
0:02:32	well i think it is a competitive to X in many use cases but and
0:02:37	you can you can state it like that you can say is wailing competing with
0:02:40	X because there is there are two different especially
0:02:43	but if you look at it in this case like don't shell and yes we
0:02:47	could definitely use X M use brain and if there's a comparison we can make
0:02:51	their
0:02:52	if you're using thilo be among it has to be happy with you do timit
0:02:56	exterm there's no reason you should switch to wait and we can improve that situation
0:03:00	for that use
0:03:01	if you're building a new system for automotive
0:03:05	in entertainment in your car then if you're building a clean slate system there you
0:03:10	can also use weight and we can make the same comparison they're not does this
0:03:13	way to get other
0:03:15	and
0:03:17	so would you say is the way to direct compared to tell you it in
0:03:20	some sense
0:03:22	that that's nothing in there that that's try to them at the school where you
0:03:26	can use weighted it's not time for just a bone formal but only but at
0:03:30	the same time is a different system and you can
0:03:33	you can make the comparison for a given
0:03:38	you know open when we point of the spectrogram you see the model come amount
0:03:41	in terms of these of underlying stack them used on that and building on exactly
0:03:47	the same underlying technologies the more taxes bill on
0:03:52	data sharing resources and very bugs yep so that was a lot of what and
0:03:57	one of the really it is a brilliant is that we have a in for
0:04:01	infrastructure now that's great of into modular components all the hard stuff about painting input
0:04:06	viruses don't you get
0:04:08	three drivers so independent a big star can be used and came yes
0:04:12	"'kay" misses most addicts bit of the X to is that we can use it
0:04:15	without having to bring up a next over of course on the clients that we
0:04:19	for a long time moving we things out of exhibiting two times
0:04:24	font rendering
0:04:27	hydro is it'll as a five hundred are now
0:04:31	so all the all this complexity has moved out of clients or how to fix
0:04:36	the rain to as well eight zero in two times in the online stack we
0:04:41	can we can now scale that bring of a different place
0:04:44	so it's a this is wise feasible that old we talk different space to because
0:04:48	all the hard not think it's now market right
0:04:53	everybody libraries a private so
0:04:55	we can see are the
0:04:57	the driver running
0:04:59	driver rider really for we can see are the libraries
0:05:04	retyping our way
0:05:06	one go all the stuff this year we will have a lot of the same
0:05:10	basic we just have
0:05:13	and what lot of active
0:05:15	of mixes what we from
0:05:20	but i mean you don't think
0:05:22	some events you don't know what recently on that trying to avoid some of the
0:05:25	some of the problem we have an X M S between the compose the you
0:05:28	know a extensions to a for you know in hot rendering and shoulder we kind
0:05:34	of get tools manage the weighted manager of every frame is perfect and X
0:05:38	do you know that do you think that
0:05:41	there is just immiscibility need all waited given the improvements you be making to the
0:05:47	composite and that there is no individual problem you can't solve the next are like
0:05:53	a little bit better with the break ticket working for three eight when a rabbit
0:05:58	it done well the resizing in that
0:06:01	you're taking away the who is not a probably what said okay i have we
0:06:05	don't create my window resize like that too but i mean the thing is
0:06:10	you know it's not every problem individually eventually the number of messages in a context
0:06:15	which is and just draw to have so you doing in there really becomes unattainable
0:06:21	and you know some things are really easy to do with max and some things
0:06:25	are really hard i mean there are things where they get with waylon that would
0:06:29	require whole new X extensions and of just the all you know i'm really looking
0:06:34	for that year we don't sell say i no longer have to talk the X
0:06:38	server whenever i want to do something to display hardware i connected this access to
0:06:42	display hardware instead of like sending everything process X interface it's not that we can
0:06:48	devise solutions there and i think the other case where want to devise solutions short
0:06:52	term to get people improve performance before we consider every do real and but
0:06:58	you know the more given doing that the more pay more suffering from so i
0:07:02	think it's a great opportunity to clean about pain and make so the new things
0:07:06	why do instead of being really hard the this recording easy
0:07:11	it to give an example of one of those features is it there
0:07:15	how coffee to go feel where we had we had it it's extensions to come
0:07:20	find me it the on the motion to that corner when you when you for
0:07:23	the corner of the over that contraband of the old you then we had to
0:07:27	and extension to can find the cursor into that corner and we have to make
0:07:31	known to use it we with the weight and based don't feel you position the
0:07:36	cursor inside don't feel we waited work on the screen you want you can find
0:07:40	the motion however you want so in you know what is don't feel finally because
0:07:45	it's just a matter of adding that were to occur some okay so i don't
0:07:49	feel you have to go by export called X extensions for that
0:07:56	because on any questions nutrients
0:08:02	rich can so you could
0:08:06	but just to add want one that and then to follow elevator pitch question this
0:08:12	is why it's hard to make a elevator pitch will it because there is it
0:08:15	is one of those days where we have a thousand apricots and if i have
0:08:18	to listen thousand caught in an elevator pitch it's gonna be model sixty seconds but
0:08:23	that is that is the problem is that we can always fix something in X
0:08:27	what it takes a lot if we're in and
0:08:29	it takes a lot of all of topics and
0:08:33	it is just something that
0:08:35	there's too much work involved
0:08:38	it
0:08:41	okay some question that you don't want sorority but we'll suspend just with system composites
0:08:45	a and
0:08:46	G and or what's done
0:08:49	i will be you we using G i don't shout was the system and section
0:08:54	of the whole one
0:08:59	well
0:09:00	things like whether or not we're using a range create any composer is the system
0:09:05	composed rapping that idea of a system post a piece aces
0:09:11	coolness a bit by the wayside to what's the name
0:09:18	david letterman david have
0:09:22	you so is the recent progress explaining
0:09:27	this
0:09:28	thinking at the moment is more like having
0:09:33	halvings assistant be basically deal with a lot of challenges or moving in a
0:09:41	us
0:09:42	privileges between can post as a spy
0:09:46	the different sessions if you had different user sessions you're switching between
0:09:50	might have
0:09:51	composes the need to where you need to repair privileges of the you could have
0:09:57	devices and the
0:09:58	the around device we to switch between mouse to
0:10:02	my and
0:10:03	that's yes it in
0:10:10	that that's what i tried but you can do it it's possible you have a
0:10:16	policy expertise that in one you between these different
0:10:20	session composed this you have a i'm starting might have to switch from one section
0:10:25	to another but the problem is if you go for the session can post a
0:10:29	model now your inputs being rudy
0:10:33	another part
0:10:34	and so we don't really want that actually like see we are and
0:10:40	so
0:10:41	the king or it's very hard we you don't you don't need it us to
0:10:46	do with the new frame to the
0:10:49	just a very possible so that basically so i think the like there is to
0:10:52	instead of five to put W process in between the composer and hardware the ideas
0:10:57	to maybe add a few but i hope tools to be that's that we can
0:11:01	be devices
0:11:02	and we already had defeated okay so we take away came it's nothing from india
0:11:06	five
0:11:07	so that is to just put the arbitration into a small process so that we
0:11:12	don't have a process in the hot that between input and make living and so
0:11:16	on what a process that you know
0:11:20	disables
0:11:21	and as well as the sexy part and there's a few things we can do
0:11:24	the that and
0:11:27	one thing is that when you be to switch the way if we if we
0:11:29	do process sessions which might be to switch you can still get that an estimate
0:11:34	on the screen so you can still go to get away on if you
0:11:36	or fate something else on top of it but what you what you're missing there
0:11:39	is you can have it like any meeting and she's been a waste get caught
0:11:43	that snapshot of what was on screen anyway so and we can get that to
0:11:48	a thank you did you could be the process it does this so when you
0:11:53	switched away from usa i
0:11:58	thank you guys that are uncontroversial question coming up so you know why just we
0:12:05	don't expect to draw decorations for that we can of themselves well try to in
0:12:11	can system user interfaces you know
0:12:15	you made that decision
0:12:18	well it's a
0:12:20	that's a lot
0:12:22	it is that that's a lot of
0:12:25	reasons and everyone of all the deep technical reasons is that we want to have
0:12:30	a line window you want
0:12:33	so one text
0:12:34	so we don't wanna spit
0:12:36	what is like one screen at one unit
0:12:39	one atomic going to like different
0:12:42	texture so that you have to have decorations
0:12:45	so the same from want to extend called the same from another take to because
0:12:48	we need to rotate or scale down or otherwise transform your window you end up
0:12:53	with there seems that seems but it and eighty S
0:12:57	it is between these parts
0:13:00	the window but if you if you all same thing from one protected so this
0:13:03	is this is really deal
0:13:05	details of hardware that we what we could do simple one big text a that
0:13:09	you get bilinear filtering on the same can you give nice very nice
0:13:14	it is between winners to and from behind the point of you i think it
0:13:18	also makes sense to have application percent the higher window it's one unit that's the
0:13:23	you and percent it
0:13:25	so when we thought what consistency there's like just two dimensions you can see this
0:13:29	well one window do we talk about consistency
0:13:32	within that window do we want it
0:13:35	title bar and the decorations to be consistent with the rest of that we know
0:13:38	content what do we want to talk about maybe inconsistent between the contents but be
0:13:43	consistent with all the time lost on this
0:13:45	and that that's
0:13:46	so that's a trade-off there can common as well on the had a
0:13:51	cases where it's kind of nice having
0:13:53	that's why decorations if you're working with designers
0:13:56	sometimes they want to have the model be where you can somebody applications contents will
0:14:03	over that's where you might wanna close button for winter objective start when we are
0:14:09	working on the case
0:14:10	as you go more than this but is we have the browser you are where
0:14:15	they wanted to be able huh
0:14:17	location bar top browser
0:14:20	no need to have
0:14:25	i'm sorry
0:14:27	to the right and that you are
0:14:30	about within sprite
0:14:32	class wearing
0:14:41	so their case
0:14:43	by design choice
0:14:45	you want
0:14:47	and of course inconsistencies enforce we didn't want to look at because it's not something
0:14:51	that an application would do it's a toolkit which are just like boston and the
0:14:55	scroll bar to which is so there's just this parliament indicate we know that there
0:14:59	is a toolbar that you kate also forty to get see it's gonna look the
0:15:03	same
0:15:04	and you can and if you were going up and
0:15:09	exterm function and an X okay since i will and that guess
0:15:12	a decoration from the X window manager
0:15:14	and look that different from your rest of the gnome desktop what exterm those different
0:15:20	from the rest of
0:15:21	so it is probably fair that it gets a different great
0:15:26	that the biggest concern i guess is it consisted interaction so you don't have like
0:15:31	buttons and different places but the windows you don't have a close button right click
0:15:35	windows those point
0:15:37	therefore
0:15:39	you kate make it
0:15:44	so on any other questions millions a gym on
0:15:53	there's actually another problem we do we tyneside decorations implement right now is that they
0:15:58	include that input our a and it shadows what we what about we don't want
0:16:04	to change the channel for example in the other you know that none shall we
0:16:08	have a what around the we know and we don't want that's the into space
0:16:12	on the wind attacks
0:16:14	so about this is that when you application when this is yellow and borders
0:16:21	you have to annotate
0:16:23	the card with the composer and you re the one thing about snap you don't
0:16:28	wanna step windows will see a stop they need to annotate window thing this
0:16:34	thirty two pixels inside of exactly where that we know this starts the when you
0:16:38	wanna move away the rights that that's what was
0:16:41	so snapping
0:16:45	we of against we are still be computed based on that
0:16:49	content big input is a different we see this is we will take so that
0:16:55	way you don't
0:16:57	you can make that market so you can pick up to resize
0:17:03	that any if we from their job of that window which is again different of
0:17:12	well for
0:17:13	over an extent
0:17:16	so but then besides basically the actual size of the window which the visible part
0:17:23	a great part about part that you don't know which stands outside of this because
0:17:29	you have invisible board of writing and then you have the shadows which is it
0:17:33	actually tells pointed part and from the composer to you want to do it you
0:17:38	was high to control that
0:17:41	to treat them separately
0:17:43	from time to time
0:17:46	yes and it was one of the you didn't mention which i guess was the
0:17:50	specific
0:17:53	still it's
0:17:55	region
0:17:56	that's you
0:17:59	so if you know if you need to blend certain regions of your window come
0:18:03	close to wants to limit how much event spending is kind of expensive especially considering
0:18:09	screen a
0:18:12	it's just it's
0:18:14	right
0:18:16	right
0:18:18	but your windows do but region are just implementation it does not directly map to
0:18:24	the visible are we know because we know might be transporting inside
0:18:31	i mean going further we have the possibility that you could enhance the winner particles
0:18:35	that say hey you know if well i meant easy cake one and i'm talking
0:18:38	to name shall and this is what you should be presenting for the in the
0:18:42	energy but then it fullback this heuristic of such as what the dog was the
0:18:47	dimensions with the actually in the region and then click on that but hey maybe
0:18:51	percent applications at that very small maybe to make a lot of sense at the
0:18:54	way that rule not big be drawn back to sell that's a that's a graphical
0:18:58	representation pull than inside a that useful so you could actually hand house having a
0:19:05	specific vertical a specific lines talk to because
0:19:09	right
0:19:11	cool
0:19:13	well what is question
0:19:20	what about network transplants
0:19:27	as well and
0:19:30	wouldn't be too difficult to implemented in the future
0:19:36	which is not
0:19:38	transparency what like that that's entirely possible and the think that people focus on where
0:19:49	we don't discuss network transparency is whether or not remote rendering it's worthwhile
0:19:54	so the what X does is that you have out just industry rendering commands you
0:19:59	save rented this gleefully here or there
0:20:03	rectangle here what is
0:20:06	why are we here and there so you used and the scheme of entering commands
0:20:11	and they it's that's a nice concept that every can understand that you've got a
0:20:15	big ball for use in the be coming a time to commit to feel that
0:20:19	with the break thing that's a very efficient encoding of the result
0:20:24	but what we have today is a that all the rendering command that you have
0:20:28	to sing to rent any given web page so
0:20:31	three D C is that the that the data have to send to render that
0:20:34	is also bigger then the final assault
0:20:38	so encoding it it's not as simple as
0:20:42	as most people think that there's a there's a trade off for some scenes obviously
0:20:46	the big rectangle it's not more efficient us and that one minute maid for most
0:20:50	break there
0:20:51	we're just to use cases it's a
0:20:55	it's a especially when you're back compression to be the end result
0:21:00	it's not clear that sending the comments is a better choice and then if we
0:21:04	accept that is sending them and it makes is not necessarily a win then there's
0:21:08	really nothing and weighted that prevents you from the remote rendering you have for every
0:21:12	application in the system have between the content
0:21:16	and you can you can either take that window content that's in people's pictures across
0:21:21	with some kind of encoding or you can you can do would be in C
0:21:24	start a remote waiting tightest of after can possibly more windows and some that is
0:21:29	and since we know when a kind of it's window we know the damage we
0:21:34	know exactly what we all react phantastic position to do right here because we have
0:21:40	pixels we have there
0:21:42	information about what changed and we just need to call this and cost
0:21:46	so
0:21:48	that that's the something that that's that can be done and what i think what
0:21:52	we can protocol is that it's optimised for
0:21:56	if you want to say
0:21:57	and in general will be trying to do is when you any meeting something we
0:22:01	only one of context with into also the ones and then back into the time
0:22:05	once frame so if you wanting six different to say can you have occasionally runs
0:22:09	sixty times a second to render that you free so that means that we can
0:22:12	just in kind of events back and forth
0:22:15	to that frame it's all optimised so that
0:22:18	it is started for you receive what eventually composite that you need to render that
0:22:22	frame what you're gonna frame you send everything back to impossible that the composer needs
0:22:26	to know about that next right
0:22:28	and it turns out that optimization is
0:22:31	it works real well for network transparency to where we're not becomes way more expensive
0:22:36	so if we if we're animating something we are
0:22:41	receiving input mentoring in response
0:22:44	a over the network then that think mathematician that makes sense in local case for
0:22:48	or maybe embedded devices what we have is our that makes a lotta sense in
0:22:53	more cases well because we don't have a lot of our kids over the network
0:22:56	we have a protocol that is very asynchronous and doesn't have any round trip so
0:23:01	i think so they're the protocol itself is
0:23:04	it's good promoting the pixel constant something we can send us very silly
0:23:10	so there's really nothing in the way of doing remote will and i have a
0:23:13	have a prototype that i'm working on a no
0:23:17	we have an R P you were that the less you run and wisdom
0:23:21	instance and then connected not peak onto that you get you get an are you
0:23:25	into your desktop so this is if we're just the top
0:23:28	remote
0:23:29	display
0:23:30	but the only thing that we not gonna do is remote rendering
0:23:34	because
0:23:36	the way will it works is at all times to whatever entering locally and we
0:23:40	just take
0:23:41	so but well
0:23:45	but in so the short answer is no nothing in the way of remote rendering
0:23:49	and we will do eventually one way or another
0:23:55	what he will bring we could do we have it
0:23:58	a custom extensively and then it's to create able for an instant when it rains
0:24:02	to brand without that awful content and that you can use
0:24:06	for a moment
0:24:08	so there there's the
0:24:11	i guess most people's concern is that from saying that is possible and describing our
0:24:16	submission might work to actually having something that works at that's opposite other way
0:24:21	there's no guarantee that it will
0:24:23	so i think you can say that just because it's possible that we will be
0:24:27	there once waylon
0:24:29	achieved world domination but it will
0:24:34	next question
0:24:35	so rob you're working on
0:24:38	maybe in name shell with that through bit marginal what you been doing a problem
0:24:42	pattern and for the composing side to so that you can have them show runs
0:24:47	away the composite and includes point one like it's applications through experiment
0:24:52	how's that going
0:24:56	making pretty good progress were if you have so
0:24:59	but in two thousand eleven i guess is wanna go we did a concept of
0:25:03	this we don't matter
0:25:05	where it's
0:25:07	running as a what we call a hybrid X away and compose the
0:25:14	matter and i'm shell essentially becomes display manager they are
0:25:19	remote sensing they are diapering what they are in the input devices
0:25:24	and it's
0:25:26	we have X whale and which is how we deal with compatibility on the fact
0:25:31	that matter is basically
0:25:34	as much of an accent as you could ever have sorry realise on
0:25:40	X way
0:25:41	to start with
0:25:43	and it's become the window manager
0:25:45	correct way
0:25:48	so we've updated the what we did for the whale and one two parts go
0:25:56	one of the changes pop this generate cleaning up thing since we did that concept
0:26:02	is that we may to say that we support runtime selection of running as a
0:26:06	whale and
0:26:07	compose to buses
0:26:10	traditional X composed to which was to
0:26:13	try and make it easier for us
0:26:15	get this code upstream
0:26:19	it would be kind of nice to be a
0:26:21	that this place just ship the builder martin supporting by
0:26:26	there's some questions as to whether or not this try to the trade off of
0:26:29	this is
0:26:31	what well with the complexity is introduces but
0:26:35	just for being and
0:26:37	different tracks
0:26:38	that weeks
0:26:45	news been doing work on the input side of things
0:26:49	a bunch of great the spits out from waylon to do
0:26:53	utilities in
0:26:55	and moved into
0:26:56	to don't know so
0:26:58	up to now
0:27:01	we're looking at opportunities to check i with some of the
0:27:05	guys working on
0:27:06	an announcement can post a
0:27:08	so they're looking at
0:27:10	spitting out some in and
0:27:12	very that we might be able to use as well as
0:27:16	and so then there's a bunch of things deal with
0:27:21	gonna might setting and something a bit like i don't have anyone seeing what's in
0:27:25	there is this privilege process question or which at the moment is the way we
0:27:29	deal with things like
0:27:33	but switching privileges for their am and it's a i dealing with the be to
0:27:38	have a device privileges and that's talking about idea we've got this idea that privilege
0:27:44	right is probably gonna move in the system they are
0:27:47	in the meantime where working to be have to shed some of the sky between
0:27:51	west and the lunch
0:27:53	so
0:27:54	name show
0:27:56	eventually bunch of that live it become done
0:28:07	well
0:28:16	so i guess and nice thing relates that as you have a nice stuff helping
0:28:21	out actually recently with the
0:28:23	one of the an issue when we first met step one of the are and
0:28:27	it's time was well
0:28:29	how we deal with display configuration to make this
0:28:32	something you could actually shipment at this ther is
0:28:36	you need to be able type name control centre figure out the change your my
0:28:39	it's
0:28:41	your machine
0:28:44	so now we're looking at having at the bus service
0:28:49	name shows to
0:28:51	controls the controls and to
0:28:56	what the
0:28:58	that's the sort of
0:29:14	thank you well so many more questions on the audience all yes
0:29:19	hello
0:29:21	is a question that iteratively after a long time so million least someone so well
0:29:27	no it wasn't intended to implement those but either a there are some did some
0:29:33	decision to take on for example that i hear
0:29:37	i'm just the was mentioning that you but not clear
0:29:41	E mentors will be a something that
0:29:44	to be minus by the client would like computer
0:29:47	and expertise mention in the one term used yes the complete control and i'm sorry
0:29:54	and monitoring implement of doing what we can with the one hundred and sent to
0:30:00	do
0:30:01	to the client is all essentially this was at some of the little a do
0:30:07	you know the reason the conclusion of about
0:30:10	so i mean they're all their dirty proposed that there is a proposed article for
0:30:15	implementing a method since current substation area for a right schools and it was to
0:30:22	ask to house a particle that a client implement to talk to the composite which
0:30:26	is all about communicating so the texture information that the method say so this is
0:30:32	that these are the character the meantime to also suffer the client to tell the
0:30:36	input method about the context is
0:30:39	and then come actually there's a particle for input methods to communicate with composite and
0:30:44	i think the right way forward that would be for name shelved implement the same
0:30:48	into method article that we implemented inside western so that we can reuse the same
0:30:53	the methods
0:30:54	inside the
0:30:57	got women and i'm channels are running on the other people's
0:31:02	and that is working right now i mean is because i think that you say
0:31:05	that there are two proposals or you have got many not like that away but
0:31:09	then there is not to a system it is one interface is from the client
0:31:14	to the composite and
0:31:16	i need to look at the patch and find someone who understand implemented to help
0:31:20	review and integrate that passion to G T K that's one issue and every to
0:31:24	okay nice is it than that but this piece of the talk it's can talk
0:31:28	to any can post and still have input methods and then there's a implemented particle
0:31:34	for the composite to start to talk in the method process which means you can
0:31:38	use any implemented the implements that particle with any composer to and than any client
0:31:43	so you can get the multitude of functionality so the you can ensure that you're
0:31:48	not having to do special work inside name shell just you have to reinvent every
0:31:55	implemented in every time and that inside magellan simile
0:31:58	specialises in every took we can have these
0:32:01	protocols to allow us to we use well
0:32:04	i mean is because this is the pushbutton my second button
0:32:08	i don't know you remember that i mean that was the on a lot of
0:32:10	to switch allows you have the right to present or something of that and i
0:32:14	just was wondering if they're just tools we use these kind of problems in order
0:32:20	from the things that right now we can do with X that this from someone
0:32:26	you use training for humans for some one shown before our i'm going to look
0:32:31	like
0:32:32	example this is something about a screen reader is doing right now
0:32:37	but right now i would probably implement that
0:32:41	application need to should be here is
0:32:45	we have to be right so we that because and it was you happy past
0:32:49	event they have to tool it's to exactly eight one consumer not you don't understand
0:32:55	at the best event to application something that i mean is
0:32:59	so i think you need to capture every time you might so one thing that
0:33:03	i didn't quite cover in michael was that the ability to have sort of trusted
0:33:07	clients so when it the can put also to can start a client and if
0:33:12	folks applying it can get a particular the socket that it should the file descriptor
0:33:18	that it should communicate with inside as viral and then we can go wrong to
0:33:22	access the interface is that wouldn't be available to generic lines so if you could
0:33:27	have a particular accessibility process that you will you know was gonna manage something any
0:33:31	says hey you know you the way it works is by getting key events before
0:33:34	sending them to the clients you could have a protocol that you could create a
0:33:39	they compose it would send the key event to that accessibility process is a hey
0:33:43	july centre cynical i don't you want to swallow it and that you can solve
0:33:47	some of the you can remain the you could just initial the security and they
0:33:50	isolation because you would be a trusted wanted composers started and knows to only use
0:33:55	that interface for the idea is not a lot for every possibly to maybe a
0:34:02	beep or something like is pi that's very receptive to provide just well and i
0:34:09	mean and you and you have to people would be asking for the service to
0:34:13	peace problems so i suppose you must but what you're saying is that should someone
0:34:18	starts in the place about and you probably should on that stuff news okay so
0:34:24	that's that you see body hit the you know this is a great example of
0:34:26	where on the weight and we don't have we can actually use we can generally
0:34:30	create specific purpose particles to solve a problem wrong trying to use whatever mechanism we
0:34:37	may have inside actually walking window trio all sorts of maybe racy or you know
0:34:44	tricky things we can actually say hey we can do this the right way and
0:34:48	we can set up
0:34:49	the way we need okay so for someone from the don't wanna be people from
0:34:55	us fifty is making at least one needs
0:34:59	i mean right because the problem is that know what we have resulted in cost
0:35:03	of experience with william so maybe i don't know that list of meets a as
0:35:10	well sometimes that are
0:35:12	but i would that there is two point two to one i that's the one
0:35:23	or two you
0:35:26	the other part is how we split composed what we have
0:35:33	exactly say
0:35:38	so when you take the key
0:35:43	we can so the cost of course get input events from there you be the
0:35:48	hardware devices and guess before anybody else so this has nothing and you can i
0:35:52	can do to save the keys coming from the heart of the you have full
0:35:57	access on our way to save any given input event and i just send it
0:36:03	to the kind of not send it to the time we can decide to send
0:36:06	that input event to implement instead of sending it are to the time so we
0:36:10	have for flexibility in there and
0:36:13	the other protocol about rob mentions what was is a protocol between the composite and
0:36:17	it that we use to communicate out input method to
0:36:23	to send a key events out and maybe get a text doing that before nine
0:36:27	but and that's currently wailing protocol and we can restrict access to that as a
0:36:31	detailed but we can also say that and people's protocol that we wanna talk but
0:36:37	nobody was we can we can we can do that and then send the results
0:36:41	back to the time we don't even we can even build the input method into
0:36:45	the composite one so we could do or like
0:36:49	input method in there longer model or probably some
0:36:52	so that there's a lot of flexibility how to structure the incremental change and important
0:36:57	parts of we have a protocol between possible
0:37:00	clients to talk about what can i think so it it's them
0:37:07	i think the this we have we have all the big do we need for
0:37:11	the there is that we need review and feedback on it but i think that
0:37:17	we
0:37:20	okay agreement
0:37:22	thank you so you know in summary i'd that not all school the on the
0:37:26	panels a on this questions i
0:37:29	what do you think the biggest challenges are facing the way the project
0:37:34	in a mixed i would
0:37:38	well i'm not sure i'm qualified to talk or the world products in general men
0:37:42	as a lot of things outside we don't but a male talk about science get
0:37:45	we just need to have this pretty soon in place because you know we want
0:37:50	which are a and we want to get their it not like five years now
0:37:54	but really within the next year would like the you know ideally every singer and
0:37:59	what it next year using real on the laptops that that's a short time scale
0:38:04	the lot of things to make that work i mean and that extends from
0:38:08	no basic we're getting don't sell unwilling going to all do pretty all these back
0:38:13	together that's all the places and it us up or we use a little bit
0:38:16	of extra one thing or another male that be covered waylon and also extends a
0:38:21	little bit it up next i mean i think
0:38:23	we're pretty lucky with the free drivers is that we already have everything set up
0:38:27	so will and broadens you seem of like to we have the X server but
0:38:30	when you know people have you know is it in video drivers of the lab
0:38:34	or something then there's a bigger challenge there to make that work with waylon so
0:38:39	we have a lot of these we have to put together we have to quickly
0:38:42	and that's a basic count but there's no one technical problem that's going to i
0:38:46	think also it's
0:38:47	you know re
0:38:48	this you draw them
0:38:52	i guess some hours once or a similar but it's
0:38:57	it's about the fact is that it takes to really get some thing and
0:39:03	and a large majorities hands how do i get
0:39:06	name show basically working as a welcome post a shipping it destroy the lots of
0:39:11	people are using and what are the italy all the tales that we need to
0:39:16	figure out like this just in the integration and G D M integration and there
0:39:24	is real blockers for
0:39:26	actually shipping this
0:39:27	the people to play with
0:39:29	even if it's got some wards
0:39:32	it's just about the basic stick
0:39:33	and people sounds really "'cause" i think it was noble once this more people able
0:39:38	to contribute and but it's more relevant to
0:39:42	to people when you can get this running on your laptop and can contribute to
0:39:46	the to get an application where that's gonna build on top of this
0:39:56	question
0:39:58	so i so i think the biggest challenge to wait a nice to get out
0:40:03	there and before in take so
0:40:06	because i think really that angle this is the that out holding but increasingly we
0:40:11	see and a beta system and then
0:40:15	like what i had is it is a problem for about that this discover what
0:40:19	is not restricted to embedded of this to be a wide
0:40:23	a shot anything this place to about
0:40:27	and i think tangoing
0:40:30	colours of the cases where you want somebody what thank you want to more modern
0:40:34	display server you want support or
0:40:37	they've been achieved it out there and on the on the other end of the
0:40:40	spectrum have X and which is good enough for people i think X is good
0:40:43	enough so if you think ex's finding stick X you are something more you might
0:40:47	go with an assistant what used like impulsive thing apart and so wait and five
0:40:52	to have a fit into that gap between
0:40:55	people to want to improve X and people are just wanna go in and
0:41:02	i think i so interesting not a lot of
0:41:06	these opportunities and i think we can get without their we have a chance to
0:41:10	actually model i see open source graphics technically control that that's part of the community
0:41:16	and define infrastructure we have an option to actually get it out there and provide
0:41:21	a new standard for graphics on the next that that's all you instead of just
0:41:27	see seating there they opportunity to who the end structure
0:41:32	so i think that that's the biggest what is it is a bit of
0:41:37	race
0:41:39	right thank you question so you know that's what we heading towards the year the
0:41:43	wailing desktop then next year so thank everyone thank you thank you and raw question
0:41:48	for opposing the power and i just wanna say we do have a you have
0:41:53	session to on monday in room at wanna i twenty thank you

Panel discussion: Wayland, the road ahead

Developer Experience Track

Kristian Hogsberg, Robert Bradford