Speech Transcript - Q&A with the board

0:00:10	so i just want to introduce you your new board the boards transition
0:00:15	transition the couple of weeks ago but really there's an in person meeting all day
0:00:21	board meeting wanna quite before products are and the new and the old fort meade
0:00:25	and so really coming out of water "'cause" one then you board takes over
0:00:32	so we're going by alphabetical in the middle sort of photographing you has you watch
0:00:38	him
0:00:41	is a manual a busty known for
0:00:44	clutter
0:00:48	among other things
0:00:50	i
0:00:51	i next is john read it
0:00:55	who is known
0:00:57	we're accessibility i
0:01:02	i
0:01:03	i
0:01:05	there are her favourite colour you stevie deep purple
0:01:11	alphabetical last and
0:01:16	coming so
0:01:17	last same alphabetical order
0:01:22	i should have
0:01:25	yes i should mention that a many well a is us secretary of the organisation
0:01:29	again and then joanie is now vice president
0:01:35	alright
0:01:40	need to the for this year and taking on the very sought after position of
0:01:46	tries or
0:01:49	is it katerina
0:01:51	for a similar
0:01:54	okay
0:01:57	hua we contribute in many ways including documentation and
0:02:03	her hacker chickens
0:02:06	on the end is toby miller
0:02:13	who is this so it's a little cut off but is the superhero this would
0:02:17	interest you friends appeal recently and does tons of work with the membership many
0:02:25	and
0:02:28	we have are returning to the board and serving another year as president andreas nielsen
0:02:38	have you noticed that he really likes birds
0:02:45	new the more this year we have a long time contributor tick you know so
0:02:50	your am wrong krishna
0:02:57	i'll say no more
0:03:00	i
0:03:04	and also need this year to the board is marinas ratings guy who is known
0:03:09	for bringing a lot of austin you contributors signal
0:03:22	did somebody want this more
0:03:24	do you just want to keep seeing this
0:03:35	i was wondering how like for singing on the look that was this is a
0:03:44	it wanna be a little higher it's and i wanna stay at thank you it's
0:03:50	you see floppy and processor and also some we can so he's not here so
0:03:55	you gets parentheses for having served that you know in the past year or years
0:04:01	it's a it actually is a lot of work to be a board member and
0:04:05	i think i when you see them you should thank them
0:04:10	so i have a couple questions but let's just opened things up right away
0:04:16	go ahead and ask we dare you
0:04:29	what's with the total up to talk
0:04:36	who i remembered we decided that it should be the port bites back
0:04:40	no
0:04:42	that was not my suggestion i think actually was talents
0:04:48	more interesting in curing a i think it's inspire you to get the board to
0:04:52	pay back
0:04:57	can everybody hear that word where you know people talk without my
0:05:02	okay
0:05:08	it will be better
0:05:09	do we do we have another mike that's running or okay
0:05:13	so
0:05:14	so you guys have less like and i'll stand here we can all share so
0:05:18	who
0:05:19	well so that's a question
0:05:26	good morning the sue be in particular the full lost three uses so we are
0:05:32	the be all the saw still running slowly over jean the awards what else board
0:05:38	on you most you
0:05:40	to should course about that much
0:05:46	from the more from the marketing
0:05:49	okay you don't want me to answer that question because an on the marketing team
0:05:53	and i'm known for not being a marketing person
0:06:01	no i i'm
0:06:04	that that's why somebody on the market seen should actually and on the board should
0:06:09	actually answer the question
0:06:11	you know one meta
0:06:17	okay
0:06:20	okay so the question is what is a board for the past three years
0:06:26	the last year
0:06:28	you
0:06:32	okay well i can tell you well you know as i said in my talk
0:06:37	sorry
0:06:39	there when we attend anyway
0:06:42	i am so
0:06:44	for the last year i personally has had to do lot of the outreach within
0:06:52	can so lot of it is so as when
0:06:58	so it started from three point O on words
0:07:02	so let me let me step back when we did three point
0:07:06	we didn't have any average for
0:07:08	there was nothing
0:07:10	we had no infrastructure are anything like that to sort of
0:07:17	soften the shock right and
0:07:22	one of the things we've done is actually create that infrastructure so we had we
0:07:26	had a number things we did one I R C name space on free knows
0:07:31	consolidate underground so can is a that name space was
0:07:38	is under our control right so we can control the message and control the channels
0:07:43	are creators and reports like i hate you know more something like that
0:07:47	second we created the google plus pages that the facebook pages and be assigned people
0:07:56	to monitor them weekly community pages we had also
0:08:05	we have also created forums
0:08:08	so basically we created a presence the google plus especially has been pretty good because
0:08:14	when we first started there were no developers or anything like that so now what
0:08:20	we had is are these and google plus we have developers engage with users and
0:08:28	ask at answering questions people like florian have actually even written code that pose posing
0:08:36	on their answering people so
0:08:38	we we've gotten to the state where
0:08:43	defending gonna has become a lot easier in and
0:08:50	if you if you look on read it or anything like that when it when
0:08:53	it grown thread is there a usually used to be me a couple other people
0:09:00	subtitles all the bidders would jump at especially an L the view and we would
0:09:06	we will engage but now we have users coming up saying i don't know what
0:09:10	you guys talk about i like and very
0:09:12	so
0:09:14	that i is changing in terms of what people think of us we still have
0:09:19	a lot to do it's always a continual process
0:09:22	to making
0:09:28	converse with our with our users right so
0:09:32	so that's so i would say are situations improved a lot a and we have
0:09:37	infrastructure now to really
0:09:41	engage in our users especially with insect that forces when they don't terminal
0:09:47	thing came out i think we have about fairly well we post on google plus
0:09:53	we went be engaged in our read it where it happened it except that so
0:09:58	we it's been
0:10:00	it's been we were able to contain
0:10:03	when something happens
0:10:05	i would say i'm not on the fourth but i can see a lot of
0:10:09	the board actually over the last year the board was
0:10:14	was very proactive about assigning resources to help support marketing team which is helped a
0:10:18	lot the marketing team was able to have a how fast which helps you know
0:10:24	sort of distill some of the messaging that we want to get across from you
0:10:28	know and also is sort of helping with you know the resources and infrastructure to
0:10:34	encourage regular meetings of the marketing meeting the marketing many needs every other week by
0:10:38	phone and that really helps us be able to respond to some of us of
0:10:42	the P R issues so there's a lot of that there's also the foundation supports
0:10:48	travel for people to go to you don't to conferences which helps a lot and
0:10:53	also pacer might time which you know is also very helpful in some ways for
0:10:58	handling here and also as i was saying at the at the A G M
0:11:03	having are you know having our campaigns be ideological of that is different the campaigns
0:11:10	everything is different by the foundation board that has really helped a lot with P
0:11:14	R issues when we launched our privacy campaign and we had a lot of people
0:11:18	switch back to us and we got a lot of positive press so i think
0:11:21	the more things that we can do you that attract positive attention to ask the
0:11:25	better and at the borders in a good position to encourage those things and also
0:11:29	to divert resources in areas that they think are important
0:11:32	thing is we happen socially like produced product we've been trying to create they i
0:11:41	guess
0:11:43	we're trying looks like tried already you
0:11:48	it's not this week coming out of this conference so you know we've been always
0:11:52	the special been working extremely hard in communicating
0:11:56	what's going on like water and things like that through various press releases so we're
0:12:04	constantly trying to engage
0:12:06	that way by communicating more aspersions or so our has been on the forefront of
0:12:12	all about so
0:12:20	no problem for us in a lot of conversation it seems the your answer to
0:12:26	are we manage of the pure disasters
0:12:29	basically better damage control or and more difference i wonder if from
0:12:35	but i could see to other places first of all like maybe before the damage
0:12:40	happens if we're taking certain decisions that are going to cost lots of damage perhaps
0:12:46	if we could get an involved in a letter explaining that was to the community
0:12:50	why we're doing this
0:12:52	or even that take it a step further and maybe take some of the feedback
0:12:56	we're getting and change how you know functions so not just like dealing with damage
0:13:01	after the fact but you preventing and maybe even addressing some of the complaints instead
0:13:06	of
0:13:07	you like i mean it just in with actual action instead of just going into
0:13:10	damage control mode what D does anyone on the board think that the board has
0:13:14	a role in doing this
0:13:19	so i think that social media presents in part answers that because on particular google
0:13:24	plus but another channels like we so often repost some of the most interesting a
0:13:30	blog posts by we did contributors is that it builds excitement at over to features
0:13:36	and also gives a forum for discussion so i feel like a lot of the
0:13:40	people who are in fact you know the active users who are full in a
0:13:44	single button we also have a forum they're not just so you know it's not
0:13:48	just the can owns account but it's also a known for and so i think
0:13:54	our engagements there is also not just remedying
0:14:00	the situation but it's also engage in people where is a feel that they're part
0:14:04	of like known what's happening and can provide feedback early on
0:14:12	what marina and so it it's also true we are part of in terms of
0:14:17	trying to get out the message of what we're doing
0:14:21	sometimes we can only be reactive in some cases because
0:14:27	we don't have a single unified voice and we should what
0:14:32	we can have it and we shouldn't have a single unified voice that everybody in
0:14:36	the project goes through so sometimes stuff just happens
0:14:43	what we can do as not
0:14:47	as a board we can we can try to ask everyone to
0:14:52	be mindful of their
0:14:55	position in the project especially if there are like maintainers score maintainers or core contributors
0:15:01	to the platform or the entire
0:15:05	collection of projects a is gonna
0:15:08	be mindful of their position there that every time they
0:15:13	open their social media or are they open the block their logs to try to
0:15:20	post or something what they say is no
0:15:25	show us
0:15:27	what they think but also reflects on can is a project
0:15:32	so that is probably the most proactive thing we can do as a for ask
0:15:38	so everybody to be mindful of that we don't want to have
0:15:45	wouldn't want to
0:15:47	continuously go around chasing people for writing lot post like this is the last product
0:15:54	or
0:15:55	everything is gonna be sorry
0:15:58	staring into the abyss or something of that it's
0:16:02	it it's not that we don't want people to right
0:16:05	criticism of the project but
0:16:08	the has to be
0:16:10	constructive criticism well seventeen do you have a question on
0:16:15	i inside the microphone and i can i and i mean i think so the
0:16:18	flip side to that question and sort of what i'm hearing from rants question is
0:16:22	also what can we do to help improve better communication within the project you know
0:16:26	is sort of a you know i have a better public facing explanation sometimes when
0:16:31	decisions are taken in to make sure that kind of communication is there
0:16:48	how can we internalise some of the criticisms the receiving but i would sort of
0:16:52	say
0:16:57	so
0:17:00	okay so it's a minor thing but
0:17:03	i totally i totally got that but we are routinely criticised for example for removing
0:17:09	features without consideration for
0:17:11	and this is something that drives me
0:17:13	it's something that i see everywhere and i think it's
0:17:16	what
0:17:23	so where that comes from this is actually legacy right so when we what you
0:17:29	know want to go to we were early on project we didn't do any can
0:17:33	we are reach so when we were already going through that whole face problem first
0:17:40	eight releases of gonna to
0:17:43	we were moving features but we never told them the context so why we're doing
0:17:48	it
0:17:49	so
0:17:51	because nobody went in there and said publicly this is why we doing it
0:17:57	those miss continue to perpetuate so lot of people who are saying
0:18:03	you the removing features are actually people remembering
0:18:07	gonna to i that's my i believe that's exactly web because we didn't do any
0:18:12	committee management that time and i thought i know this because
0:18:17	even when we're going to gonna to that
0:18:21	you know twenty you know that you go on a on a on a social
0:18:25	me is site like slashdot it's a same stop the same criticism was happening continuously
0:18:32	on all of the i mean i'm one of those sites all the time and
0:18:36	even in those days you would never think that gonna was a number one
0:18:40	that's top even it and slashed at the case it was
0:18:45	this is costly set of negativity
0:18:54	sure
0:19:00	the nautilus is in this interesting case
0:19:05	i was just going to say that it's names to be more of a social
0:19:08	problem that's
0:19:10	actually members of a commute you do need to communicate more with each other and
0:19:13	maybe actually say what they're going to do before they do it
0:19:17	and that's something that each person needs to D on there and it's not something
0:19:21	that we can force them to be we can ask people to do it but
0:19:24	we can't force them because everyone's individual
0:19:29	i mean if you if there's a project you're specifically interested then maybe should actually
0:19:33	go and i can it
0:19:35	and then you have a sane what's how it goes
0:19:59	still have perhaps of the board feels that they should have a role and setting
0:20:05	the tone for the culture of the project are influencing
0:20:13	well we do represent the project because we've been very to then
0:20:17	so i have from that view we can at least set that in some way
0:20:21	but it's
0:20:22	all we can do i think is just ask people to
0:20:26	the else and each other
0:20:33	well not necessarily well i was
0:20:36	going to say slide is saying that we can mildly
0:20:40	like what would be a be amount rolled model maybe and by i don't know
0:20:44	communicating nicely also to the outside world
0:20:48	trying to set you know positive examples for
0:20:51	all follow project members
0:20:53	i don't think "'cause"
0:20:56	alright i don't think we can do a lot
0:21:01	well off precise all we can take precise actions i think
0:21:06	"'cause" we are but at least i see myself as
0:21:10	someone that directs resources
0:21:14	and makes i don't know
0:21:17	decisions not necessarily
0:21:20	hard technical decision decisions within the project but facilitates
0:21:24	that the project works
0:21:26	and
0:21:27	so i don't know i wouldn't i wouldn't see myself as someone that
0:21:31	goals
0:21:32	straight i don't know onto these
0:21:35	a social platforms and commuted to the users work on the problem facilitate
0:21:40	but we just make to do next
0:21:43	is that doesn't make sense
0:21:53	okay we heard okay so one of the thing i gotta cough to suck
0:22:01	okay so one of the things i think that is
0:22:05	to me it's actually very fascinating problem that can has is that i mean you
0:22:11	think about it were a bunch of individuals and a bunch of teens working pretty
0:22:18	at on the bus late and yet somehow when you think about it we managed
0:22:22	to pull off an entire
0:22:24	major product
0:22:27	on a perfectly well schedule you know six months every single
0:22:35	semester for lack of a better word basis in at the doing it for god
0:22:39	i don't even know how many years i've not been around you know since before
0:22:43	you know i was here since two thousand five but we've been historically doing that
0:22:47	were like a company
0:22:49	and yep of course for the complete opposite of the company and so it's the
0:22:53	outside world everyone is kind of looking at is at least in my mind i
0:22:58	mean not exactly like for apple or microsoft word is be model with the thank
0:23:03	and for not and still unanswered of rains of original question i think the board
0:23:08	does have an active role but it's at the same level as the marketing team
0:23:15	and is the design team and the accessibility meant a release team i think what
0:23:20	you know that every can we try to have a foundation meeting a few people
0:23:23	show up and then you know the border whoever posted it says and no one
0:23:26	comes maybe not exactly and open foundation meeting but maybe what all of the individual
0:23:33	teams need to do is have regular you know at least representatives like the board
0:23:39	beeps with the design team and is you know the police teams present excessively teams
0:23:44	present and we can all sit around and say you know what guys we're gonna
0:23:48	remove the speech or from models
0:23:51	and if that is the decision on that the people to make those decisions make
0:23:56	well then okay the marketing team i need to do something or maybe you know
0:24:00	we wanna have a discussion about okay well we can remove that for the geeks
0:24:03	really want it maybe there you know we need to discuss because if we give
0:24:08	the impression to the outside world despite the quality work that we produce that we
0:24:14	are at it's you know a monolith the creature that's we're gonna see that's we're
0:24:19	gonna be treated on slashdot
0:24:21	and that's are gonna be treated on right it and but functionally we all know
0:24:25	that we're not such a monologue
0:24:29	well in terms of structure and i'm use pretty the flat
0:24:34	so there is no it's a lot teams at the same so maybe we should
0:24:40	increase the height i think i once i'm sorry but it but just of quickly
0:24:44	followed what i'm actually saying the opposite but because we're because we are flat we
0:24:48	all or individual little units need to talk together a lot more and coordinate our
0:24:53	actions a lot more i think the board actually that i've actually responding to so
0:24:58	is to make the board actually does have the ability to make some changes and
0:25:02	this and i would just want to find out that it if you anybody any
0:25:05	audience anytime has any suggestions for concrete action support you take email the board it's
0:25:10	very easy to do and the board will consider all actions their email to it
0:25:14	i think that a point that hasn't been made here is that the board has
0:25:17	power to implemented a code of conduct or to change the code of conduct that
0:25:21	we have already and that's something that maybe the board could evaluate responsive
0:25:30	is this what are you going to do to make this happen
0:25:33	well since i only just now kind of been listening really thought about it when
0:25:37	i get back i guess this email the right down that i have an action
0:25:42	item to email all the other team's and say you know you all agree and
0:25:47	how often should we meet and where should we meet and what's are all gonna
0:25:51	get on the same page so we can coordinate what happens a lot better than
0:25:54	we are now training you think there are particular you know action items that should
0:25:59	be taken in these meetings but the board now
0:26:05	a trend says that you things chinese idea sounds wonderful
0:26:08	so i and i well that's not accurate were that i don't know board can
0:26:14	set the culture to be not too extreme to say that if we're gonna remove
0:26:19	features that's fine but we need to have a public discussion before we do that
0:26:24	so that it's not at least to the outside appearing like all of a sudden
0:26:30	pattern on from nautilus are all of a sudden compact used on from nautilus and
0:26:34	i know that there may be there may be some internal discussion going on within
0:26:38	the team but from the outside even it if you're not on the team it's
0:26:44	hard to it's hard to see that and it's hard to see that
0:26:48	and it just it makes it gives the appearance that people are just removing things
0:26:53	without a discussion
0:26:56	i mean do we do we all spy i wonder why sh should we also
0:27:02	have these countries when we add things right because that also cost the way
0:27:08	and i knew like i think like one thing there is like real helpful is
0:27:12	like winning it shorter probably and
0:27:14	such as this conference right
0:27:19	but also i mean does at least seven like if the release T right says
0:27:25	like unfortunately we cannot release that
0:27:29	then that is how it is right this a like this new version of this
0:27:33	application
0:27:35	cannot going to release
0:27:38	just possible
0:27:39	huh
0:27:41	but what i'm what i'm saying is that like to some extent D board also
0:27:46	exposes the house
0:27:49	cannot take the technical decisions right
0:27:53	that's bring them by los so it's kind of tricky not way
0:27:58	and i also can to think of like to keep things simple right so i
0:28:02	mean like
0:28:03	we had discussion that announced and uncertain may always right where people one other and
0:28:08	unlike it just exploded in
0:28:11	discussion right so we you i recall like the last one here the board had
0:28:17	to tell an individual to
0:28:20	please come down or he or she would be down from the list
0:28:25	so i guess that's that part of it but i also know that it's not
0:28:28	exactly what you're asking for
0:28:31	but we also need to be mindful of the fact that you know designed is
0:28:35	the committee doesn't work real great so well we could have those discussions we you
0:28:40	know we should be trusting people who are you know
0:28:44	do in the design or people who are do any release or people who are
0:28:48	doing the coding and you people who wants to participate in the discussions need to
0:28:53	be a lot more involved than just kinda like you know have an L long
0:29:00	form a but cool one some feature would as and
0:29:06	i just would like to add that i mean this whole discussion is going on
0:29:10	with the background that it's axiomatic that we going to and we're going to continue
0:29:14	german features and that in fact we have remove features
0:29:19	well i it's only in a lot i mean it's a new the last three
0:29:22	years that with right with great default suspend confided with for moving pages
0:29:29	and my opinion
0:29:32	and my opinion i mean i mean moving see things from controls in the territory
0:29:36	tall as norman features
0:29:39	so that if you look at the actual number of stings a we have removed
0:29:43	implement small and full of applications
0:29:47	the reach the stuff has been moved around so what i'm saying is like
0:29:52	can we stop talking about removing features and if we do okay
0:29:57	talking about in these terms but if we do
0:29:59	what's the longer product we trying to create where we can go back to the
0:30:04	original perhaps going more try we have the default a great
0:30:07	because
0:30:09	that's
0:30:11	that's version seems to be swamped you know why we have the destructible gravity them
0:30:17	or switches i mean
0:30:20	i don't think it's always been this way the composition
0:30:26	what trying to create a product that is straightforward to use
0:30:30	and we are into reading on what that might be
0:30:41	that's right
0:30:45	i really see that i truly believe that we have to stick with our design
0:30:48	vision but i think we
0:30:51	it's are role to communicate why we're making certain changes not only after people get
0:30:56	really upset or angry but like beforehand so this is gonna happen this is what's
0:31:01	coming and not just let people get really mad and upset and feel like they
0:31:08	have been neglected or not but nobody bought about them on so that then we
0:31:13	will say something then we're right up what most about it it's something is gonna
0:31:18	land we usually know it's gonna land i mean in advance
0:31:22	so i don't see any reason why we
0:31:25	we would not
0:31:27	have this conversation with the community before things happen so people can
0:31:31	started anyway there's a bit of the danger there because when you open up that
0:31:39	much you can really get bogged down by people who nitpick and i mean you
0:31:45	don't want to console have a discussion i mean is our project with is the
0:31:50	direction we're going when people complain there's a number of reasons behind why they complain
0:31:59	it's sort of strange just by the amount of people or complain is actually power
0:32:04	fairly small but
0:32:08	there are a lot and they're consistent
0:32:12	so
0:32:14	and yes and lot of don't use gonna because
0:32:19	they'll what i talk so this is comes from hours of conversations
0:32:25	with these people i mean this is and this is by engaging and then i
0:32:30	find out that it's been they were angry backing gonna to
0:32:35	and they left that and they can see to get over the fact that
0:32:40	that
0:32:41	over the fact that somehow
0:32:43	they've been betrayed
0:32:45	i mean a lot of people who are complaining
0:32:49	to be true but we only feel betrayed because nobody told you beforehand otherwise you
0:32:53	wouldn't feel bit they betrayed that's what i'm saying down from the last couple of
0:32:57	incidents that we have experienced i feel that people on com doll a lot after
0:33:04	the reasons where were exposed and that the russian all of our decisions what was
0:33:11	supposed on and they often filled more outraged by our lack of expulsion of those
0:33:17	reasons of those does motivations and then by the actual removal of the feature they
0:33:21	can of course take it's always gonna happen but if and i think people tend
0:33:26	to forget faster if them the reasons are proposed
0:33:32	so it's not always clear that the people using the group the people engage in
0:33:38	those are actually users a using or software
0:33:51	violating my on well i think you're right that there is there that does happen
0:33:57	but i think what ryan was asking was more specific and not for you know
0:34:02	not for the people more in using you know and i think that might be
0:34:04	on it was sort of addressing you know that very same issue and i wonder
0:34:09	is there something we can i mean i brought of the code of conduct because
0:34:12	that's something that the board has control over you know is there some way to
0:34:15	build in some kinds of procedures that require you know you some process of documentation
0:34:22	whatever some something is impacted
0:34:28	is it just me or is applicable we element materials to those to applaud doing
0:34:32	homework properly
0:34:35	because they actually like of them like blog quite a lot unlike upcoming changes right
0:34:41	and i think it would be helpful to see similar things from under P developers
0:34:56	so i agree like it's obviously good to get out i had of potentially controversial
0:35:03	decisions and to do kind of
0:35:06	engage with people one making those decisions
0:35:10	and
0:35:14	there's always a lot more but we could be during and we could always be
0:35:17	better
0:35:19	that's
0:35:20	you know this is a free software project
0:35:24	people come here to have
0:35:26	to do good work
0:35:28	to feel empowered to be able to do something
0:35:33	and we don't have the kind of resources
0:35:37	to do as much as we'd one i'd you know a custom get into this
0:35:41	to be public relations people
0:35:44	they get into the to them and i think we should and central design is
0:35:49	an owl documentation writers and everyone else
0:35:53	and i mean really need is more marketing resources so that we have like dedicated
0:35:59	P L people who when they see like the there's a potential situation bring they
0:36:04	can
0:36:04	gonna get the story and talk to people and do all the work that's necessary
0:36:08	i mean this is what happens in companies right this is how companies manage public
0:36:13	relations a lot discounts and the idea that
0:36:17	this is just some kind of marketing problem you know there are decision making processes
0:36:24	to consider as well but
0:36:26	and then when we have kind of hate marketing people phone i'm the situations like
0:36:33	this are gonna arise i mean the market it seemed that we have a
0:36:38	volunteers you know we have a limited amount of time we're not marketing professionals we
0:36:43	do what we can try to do that changing the name of the marketing to
0:36:47	do you know from passion are how are you to that is it is something
0:36:50	like that it sounds like a really stay
0:36:54	probably
0:37:10	i mean that's generally what the product management comes and in some shape or form
0:37:15	of the
0:37:16	the some kind of liaison person and generally that's the role that i try to
0:37:20	perform right like so i mean you know
0:37:24	i'll i will just you know issues as the coming up and i know the
0:37:29	right kind of the people who are working closely with design and development know about
0:37:34	but then the question is what do you do about that because you know i'd
0:37:37	i don't think
0:37:38	i think even if we did let the marketing team
0:37:41	no i'm not entirely sure that we have the capacity to do much about
0:37:58	well mean that's what we already do with like you know myself from the two
0:38:01	years and draw everyone else something
0:38:06	we know what's going on i mean the information is that
0:38:18	so
0:38:24	so what idea we could do is maybe work a little closer to release team
0:38:29	released team would know the set of features everything else and they could give us
0:38:34	a heads up
0:38:56	the release team has a very well defined like role in terms of not just
0:39:01	deciding also speeding release unless
0:39:04	the marketing that martin in paris and that's that
0:39:09	i think what needs to happen is
0:39:12	more people should follow their released
0:39:17	i mean marketing design everybody should follow there really is the
0:39:21	not be on the release think that's that would be kind of pointless but
0:39:30	they should follow mark do you think it this is the release things this magical
0:39:36	creature that lives in the forest and sometimes gets out of the forest and drops
0:39:43	a steaming pile packages for distributions to pick up and make like gold out of
0:39:50	it
0:39:53	i know that's why i'm not i
0:39:58	but D
0:40:00	them
0:40:02	it's not that mythical it's not it's a bunch of people actually running a bunch
0:40:08	of scripts
0:40:09	and fixing the issues that come up when building the collection projects days now
0:40:15	they are human beings and they do human beings stuff so people should just talk
0:40:22	to them
0:40:23	read what they you're right in there you males it's not a high elevation so
0:40:28	it's sometimes it's english is sent english as well so it should be read
0:40:34	right
0:40:35	and people should just follow there is a mainly space with public archives people can
0:40:41	actually follow what happens
0:40:42	so if you want to be involving the release the just
0:40:46	paul the release stole then on actually i think it's a get suggestion evaluated
0:40:53	just i think princeton same inspiration so i have to follow
0:40:59	in terms of
0:41:01	what do i have to read all the commit so for tweaked or left to
0:41:05	follow all the projects that i think might remove features
0:41:08	in future and it's only like six projects so just follow them nautilus the shame
0:41:14	a schema changes that ceilings demon controls in the in the mailing list of audio
0:41:21	and you could of although i do sometimes wonderfully secret I R C channels and
0:41:24	i'm not privy to that like it's not that much work
0:41:30	so we did we did have a notion of doing week we but that somebody
0:41:36	would do weekly reports of
0:41:38	what was going on various modules
0:41:43	that could be somebody wants to volunteer doing something like that would help a lot
0:41:48	for a lot of us we need somebody who can mangle those mangle those things
0:41:53	and maybe that's what we are can get volunteers for to do is to do
0:41:58	those reports
0:42:00	right
0:42:01	and i just i just is that what we hear is that we need more
0:42:06	people fill in and please don roles and i'm just thinking and matt allen for
0:42:10	years ago when we were both a now way to grant can area so you
0:42:14	know in four years you can be alan and have chance if you know sorry
0:42:20	if you start being a liaison between designers and marketing work between release team and
0:42:26	marketing and we need more people fill in those roles and wanting to
0:42:32	kinda you know is see what's going on and try to explain it we need
0:42:36	more people to communicate
0:42:39	we we've got a little bit far away from and now i've been trying to
0:42:42	ask a question for a while but something happened about ten minutes ago i was
0:42:48	talking about have the board has a role in setting the tone for the community
0:42:52	influencing the culture and two members of the board in front of a room full
0:42:55	of people basically said that people who criticise you know or you can use it
0:43:02	but that's i mean i heard it industry and you use sort of implicitly agree
0:43:07	that is a pretty radical interpretation of the subtext
0:43:11	and i think you're absolutely wrong
0:43:13	but this is what i heard i mean that suddenly how i took it and
0:43:18	i think this is an attitude that pervades can home and i think it's to
0:43:21	our hazard we too often dismiss are our detractors what i what i actually i
0:43:29	i'm gonna stop line for myself because i actually said something like that but i
0:43:34	said we should we should let people criticise number even inside and out
0:43:40	but they should be mindful of their if they're in the can project they should
0:43:44	be mindful that their words reflect on the overall project so it should be very
0:43:50	clear about
0:43:52	adding constructive criticism
0:44:00	okay so
0:44:04	i was going by people accurately wide-ranging okay so
0:44:09	do you are telling me well okay so
0:44:13	i had made a statement that lot of people who complain about gonna we're not
0:44:20	gonna music right i said that because
0:44:27	did a lot of times where i do i mean the people like am i
0:44:32	engage them on a one to one basis and the number of forms so this
0:44:38	is coming from an off the cuff remark this is
0:44:56	right now okay show it's there's that's now i'm sorry i just repeating the questions
0:45:03	you know like and then trying to thing that there are people who are complaining
0:45:06	who left now and who are users of them
0:45:12	you know like classical saying like i'm so and read you because i want your
0:45:17	rights and like i see you around doing but i still believe in thing we
0:45:24	have to get it right so i mean i mean like if you if you
0:45:28	are really happy then you are just indifferent right so actually the fusion abusive relationship
0:45:34	i don't want to phrase conversation all know in terms of that
0:45:40	alright that is definitely not smile my intent i really don't
0:45:48	so no
0:45:50	so
0:45:51	okay so there's a subtlety and that whole argument about whether other people have the
0:45:57	right to complain if they're not using a stopper
0:46:00	that that's not my intention i'm not i'm not saying that others cannot
0:46:04	complain about the project i take
0:46:07	when people criticise a take everything
0:46:11	i take everything seriously regardless whether there
0:46:15	from gonna we're not it's because everybody is a potential returnees do right so
0:46:24	i'm just saying that when we're addressing problems that need to keep in mind that
0:46:29	some of them
0:46:32	it was specific to what are the honour was saying in the sense that when
0:46:36	the air are boundary that and you're trying to have a conversation some of some
0:46:41	of the conversation gonna have a sort of noise
0:46:45	because there is a set that haven't forgotten as i said i was tucker better
0:46:51	and they are just doing to have no intention to come back or anything
0:46:55	but they cannot seem to get past
0:47:00	that part i and
0:47:03	there is a subset like that there's in fact there's a lot of reasons why
0:47:07	people dislike you know there's
0:47:09	from a variety of reasons
0:47:13	there's a class of people who dislike
0:47:16	you know because it's trying to be popular
0:47:19	and it is just set of people who like
0:47:22	having their own niche os
0:47:26	and they want
0:47:28	you keep it
0:47:29	for themselves
0:47:31	in the same vein they don't like princes more women joining
0:47:36	the movement in the same sort of thing it's their necks
0:47:41	this is what i've gleaned from
0:47:44	having conversations with people like that
0:47:47	it's sort of
0:47:48	there's a certain psychosis and some of these
0:47:51	so i'm not
0:47:54	i know i guess i can sorta i usually can tell what's valid
0:47:59	criticisms and what is not
0:48:04	which is one what is noise to some extent
0:48:07	just because i've been doing it for
0:48:10	three years
0:48:12	three four years
0:48:14	so i do that personally because i know i am
0:48:19	so when i'm when i'm when i'm out there doing it
0:48:23	then things i say is said in a way that
0:48:28	gives the impression they don't doesn't care
0:48:31	whether
0:48:32	unless you're user and i mean
0:48:35	the words are not set that way
0:48:40	so the moment project all out here and the a been going to go out
0:48:47	of for ten years
0:48:49	and
0:48:51	i also use gnome by the time we had a F T P client embedded
0:48:56	in the panel
0:48:57	we had to shell embedded in the panel i'm still hating you all removing my
0:49:02	favourite feature all time by the way i'm not going to tell you want to
0:49:05	also but you remove it
0:49:10	but the back and that i we look around and had a pretty clear vision
0:49:18	statement for the know what like gnome application walls what was supposed to do in
0:49:21	the form of the egg
0:49:23	in the two point though there is it was pretty much the guiding
0:49:28	document of the whole project
0:49:31	what is can and then we got the three point though and we have a
0:49:35	to have that interface that suppose to work and touchscreens that's supposed to is remove
0:49:40	all the features and all the work on the three D graphics and so on
0:49:44	and we are
0:49:47	why do you why do you think i'm not mention to here
0:49:53	but what i'm what i mean here is that
0:49:57	we lost our mission statement
0:49:59	we lost the guiding light that others see what are we trying to do
0:50:11	i think ambitions chinese pretty damned clear we should make an operating system or an
0:50:16	environment that is
0:50:17	that i full to use a joy to use for the uses and it's free
0:50:22	and it's open source
0:50:24	and it's
0:50:25	and
0:50:26	it's a great user experience that is the mission has always been the mission i
0:50:31	mean even gonna one point four we didn't make a project to
0:50:36	make it so hard any possible to users to use their computers because we need
0:50:41	people use
0:50:43	and we like to impose misery on the people that use hours i'm some anything
0:50:47	their hand thing
0:50:48	right
0:50:52	so i from what i understand from various from various comments for the vice people
0:50:58	there is that communication problem and there is a lot of a single person that
0:51:03	could coordinate various teams
0:51:05	and you could in not impose but probably set a direction in the vision so
0:51:11	should we allocate okay and we allocate some resources in the form of an office
0:51:16	L C your normal or something like that
0:51:19	god
0:51:23	sorry
0:51:25	project leader yes
0:51:28	i don't i know i vote we bring chapel back and we have in like
0:51:37	in the what we could ask mark
0:51:42	i mean is already doing that for we can ask mark for the
0:51:48	sorry
0:51:52	but
0:51:55	what should we nominate somebody days the sell well not the self appointed that
0:52:01	foundation appointed a benevolent dictator for life of them
0:52:08	what would that was said that
0:52:11	who had the guts to say that i
0:52:14	you do
0:52:16	i you don't wanna be or that a really don't
0:52:21	no i think that's not great idea at all i think
0:52:25	it's
0:52:27	it's good that we have various teams that are in bold in their specific areas
0:52:32	they need to get better talking each other
0:52:35	that's true
0:52:37	but that's it we shouldn't have one person that gives
0:52:42	okay so i i've been wanting to say a couple of things but the last
0:52:46	question
0:52:48	is related to one of things i wanted to say and it was you go
0:52:52	of there is but it what we have in this is what i was saying
0:52:55	that lance right we have a communication problem namely we are communicating amongst ourselves someone
0:53:04	was saying i think was owl and that you know we are professional P R
0:53:08	people but man i what can at our marketing team and they write a pretty
0:53:13	darn professional and if we actually keep down in the loop and if we have
0:53:17	to keep to police team i don't out alex to the really steamy the know
0:53:21	about model is removing that feature mister can your
0:53:27	so was that paid attention my question is that the release so i in the
0:53:31	do some of the discussion was the release team you know
0:53:36	if it the implication that a new say about the nautilus removal did you guys
0:53:40	even know about that
0:53:47	but well these figuring out the mic thank the other thing i wanted to
0:53:52	point to point out to respond to i think i think it was probably on
0:53:55	a set it but
0:53:59	you know i mean something that i've been thinking about for awhile like them really
0:54:03	been thinking about it is i'm sitting here it's like okay so this happened maybe
0:54:08	after can online this definitely happened after can own to
0:54:12	what we learned from that why do you can be number three this happened you
0:54:17	know it's like
0:54:19	it's we just keeps repeating itself so the next time we're gonna do you know
0:54:22	when they don't for comes out this bloody well better not happen because we have
0:54:26	been here you know it's like groundhog day that movie groundhog day when you wake
0:54:30	up of thirty days the same stupid thing if we start all communicating now
0:54:36	we all keep all of us in the loop
0:54:39	and we can all be proactive instead of reactive would be known for comes out
0:54:44	this crap isn't gonna happen and if it does well that we learned from that
0:54:48	and we're ready for you know five
0:54:50	but about that you dream some of the questions that about the least ensure that
0:54:56	others to but you something like that is every from that is i mean well
0:55:00	the reason we are having these specific questions is because last year the wrist in
0:55:06	where the one who will i be here
0:55:10	because an us some other people mention
0:55:14	some people feel that the wrist is do more that they are doing right now
0:55:19	but that's my only saying that so you use estranged analogy i is better you
0:55:24	that i would like to see that there is can easily i tool i mean
0:55:29	use yes like a smart well i will i would like to think that this
0:55:34	has my will be messing i mean they hire
0:55:38	the what they
0:55:40	do is just basically compile all you know messed up
0:55:44	for example so there are a few to propose are period release teen doesn't aside
0:55:51	i mean we are going to take these and these teachers is not like that
0:55:55	if you to proposal i've sent to the best of better on the people talk
0:55:59	and the release team stays on the meeting okay people say that it makes that
0:56:04	there were a we should include
0:56:07	based on this feature or medium used
0:56:12	being a benevolent at all the raw and be sure that the tutors way on
0:56:16	them being people but we happy can people not the goals because we have a
0:56:19	power we happy can be put because those people propose feature and the community approved
0:56:25	that so in that sense i thought i read only that probably which try to
0:56:30	learn something from the past
0:56:32	and
0:56:34	i think that and sees use something that you don't to you know three i
0:56:38	think that the people have the feeling that
0:56:41	listing half a lot of power because of these where am and don't gonna stumble
0:56:47	the wrist in west estate apropos thing you know three saying but in the end
0:56:52	they just proposal that and they committed i with that but i'm saying is that
0:56:57	wasting reason out at this is you on
0:57:04	and decision team is just to ask
0:57:09	i'm not talking about my opinion and my for something and i have we is
0:57:13	and then i that in the end it would be about the idea to having
0:57:16	a real all the role
0:57:18	saying we still do that because in the end i mean we are talking about
0:57:21	is our on the power decision these at that mine ten of time so i
0:57:26	mean we have it would be something strange to say to them and then it
0:57:30	just two that are used to that i think
0:57:44	so
0:57:50	we have or whatever
0:57:54	so we're as to what alan said before that you know we just here too
0:57:58	hard i don't know i mean when i wanted to fix my first part i
0:58:02	needed to learn about called guidelines and do presentation and you will see that and
0:58:09	i mean the fact that we're now
0:58:12	professional P R people doesn't mean though we don't we shouldn't have better it right
0:58:20	so i just for sort of do know each group's blue
0:58:38	well
0:58:57	for
0:58:59	but that's so far from each other
0:59:04	you just don't
0:59:10	in response to a one i mean i know what you're saying but it's not
0:59:14	you and you and you and you when you it's we you and i think
0:59:18	that's at the team level there's not like this thousands of teams and you know
0:59:23	if the teams at the team level start talking i think will make some progress
0:59:28	i sat suggestion and that mike are buying fee to highlight be communicators and to
0:59:35	actually draw attention to the people who are and you were trying to help and
0:59:40	in this area and i think that's a good suggestion
0:59:43	does anybody want to move on to another question i think we've talked about this
0:59:46	one or has a completely different point to make
0:59:51	O C R
0:59:54	i've been making not making a vision for your so it's probably want to or
0:59:58	just projects that still a lot of
1:00:03	i don't think you know more do needs you know technical polishing it'll barely scheme
1:00:08	or by you know someone policy at all it's it has to be the main
1:00:12	thing this thing zero we have had features
1:00:16	it's probably not the maintenance what that it don't know how it works but it
1:00:20	works because there are some still know some people around the world are using it
1:00:23	so before you little a feature i think it's the maintainers rolled to take at
1:00:28	that's been used are not you know your body about so coming from you know
1:00:32	how you know the you sell this and all those things i think it should
1:00:35	be more based on that to take into addition i don't think about it or
1:00:39	any other of policing from it at the least team auditorily any other team that
1:00:45	so we should work and
1:00:47	if F features been the writing it should be centralised to that more than instructing
1:00:51	you know a you know be known to the as a whole thing you know
1:00:55	that so i really see this
1:01:00	anyway
1:01:01	just
1:01:06	how are our meeting
1:01:10	i was waiting for that ten any i
1:01:20	okay
1:01:21	thanks everybody for caring some i don't to stick around and i don't know no
1:01:27	i just wanted to make a comment because i'm a naughty so that he thinks
1:01:29	our mission statement is pretty clear and i think it's
1:01:32	i don't think it is i think we have a very i mean saying we
1:01:35	are providing a great experience for everyone is a very good draft and it gets
1:01:39	of an overview of what we're trying to do but saying a great experience for
1:01:43	users which users what users that it's pretty nice to say that we can please
1:01:48	everybody in the world with one single experience so we cannot so we're definitely focusing
1:01:53	in a certain kind of person and we might as well figured it's all together
1:01:57	and great experiences a very broad term
1:02:01	we experience for want grey experience how and which way so i think there's a
1:02:06	lot of gaps we need to fill and we have a as a basis but
1:02:09	i mean i guess there's a lot gaps we need to fill it in needs
1:02:13	to be needs to be
1:02:18	okay
1:02:20	there is a lot of things to define in that particular mission statement
1:02:27	it's
1:02:28	a mission statement should not be three pages long to detail word you are users
1:02:34	are or who they are not or how the experience should be the life for
1:02:41	a how it should not be delightful a
1:02:45	i think
1:02:47	abroad mission statement is fine and as to be chiselled down on very specifically with
1:02:54	the L for the marketing team or the average or whatever goals bowl by likeable
1:03:02	and the release team and everybody else that works on them at a higher level
1:03:07	than just a single mould you month and then as to be
1:03:12	handled by each and every month in are in some way
1:03:15	so that's important
1:03:17	but
1:03:18	the mission statement can be attacked
1:03:27	that it we're gonna use this to fill the gaps how many people here were
1:03:33	dissipate in a foundation sorry stingray meeting to discuss this further
1:03:38	i would
1:03:39	okay let's get this only the next piracy meeting of the foundation
1:03:45	i think we should probably wrap this up and make sure that we have plenty
1:03:48	of worms going on throughout the year to discuss this should be only a lot
1:03:52	of thing i mean we've got such a passion involved me i do you wanna
1:03:57	and i that you know i want and on a slightly different note the board
1:04:03	i mean every other week which i've been involved in as you guys know a
1:04:07	lot of nonprofit organisations
1:04:10	this is the only one i know that is like this where the board wants
1:04:14	to meet so often most boards that i've been involved with me like quarterly at
1:04:19	most
1:04:20	so every other week isn't seen it's a lot of work and so i just
1:04:24	want to ask quickly in like one sentence or last what is it about can
1:04:30	on that makes you think that it's worth serving on the board to meet every
1:04:34	other weekend to you know be have to answer for the project in general
1:04:40	select start at the centre this and
1:04:45	the pressure community
1:04:49	also the community
1:04:51	a little you go so it's one
1:04:55	now i feel like i need us shorts nor keep it these thing and i
1:04:58	don't have wanted to be brief
1:05:01	crying out
1:05:03	i'm way past a
1:05:06	B equal access to software information for everybody all over the world
1:05:17	community no
1:05:26	it's worth it
1:05:31	so them so who is the question videos
1:05:40	i a
1:05:44	i have you can pretend of the organisation now you're in for and second term
1:05:51	why do you spend your time doing it
1:05:56	well so
1:05:58	so
1:06:01	i'm not i'm not sure it's gonna be very inspirational a sprays or something but
1:06:06	you know like somebody needs to do it writes
1:06:09	someone needs to do i see
1:06:16	there are so many other people that do like a lot of really hardcore development
1:06:19	but someone needs to do like to boring meetings but a phone meetings to but
1:06:25	like long that
1:06:29	hi so for me it is the high standards and the friendly communities that i'm
1:06:35	proud to like introduce new people to and you know that we build in something
1:06:41	that can reach a lot of people
1:06:44	thank you are we should have these conversations all the time
1:06:48	so will announce the next foundations i receive meeting please join us tell everybody else
1:06:51	you wasn't here today that they should join the nist meeting about keep doing it
1:06:55	thank you so much for coming

Q&A with the board

Others